Ballistic missile Nasr: A bigger threat from Pakistan

[kurup]

Pakistan Missile technology is far ahead of Indian missile technology

Only in subsonic cruise missile , In BMs and Supersonic & Hypersonic CMs we are far ahead of you .

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Like i said..killing foot soldiers with nuclear weapon wont be of any advantage..
It the high value targets which are too resource intensive and time consuming to destroy,those will be the targets.
Mechanized,artillary and armoured divisions will be the most probable targets..
A tank brigade of 500 tanks is advancing..Pakistan has lost air superiority and cannot target them with anti tank weaponery..
Then firing a few nasr with nuclear warheads will stop the onslaught..

Okay; now you fired that Nasr(s). After that what happens???

LOL, you seem to have as much (or as little) thought-processes as Musharraff.

Little wonder that Kargil took place. And ended as it did!!

 

[illusion8]

Prove that Nasr,Babar and RA,AD is chinese missiles
Pakistan Missile technology is far ahead of Indian missile technology

I won't go into other two systems but stick to the one on the thread,

China’s NLOS-BSMs For Export & Hatf-9/Nasr/M-20 NLOS-BSM Explained
NLOS-BSMs of Chinese origin are presently being marketed by two state-owned entities: China National Precision Machinery Import & Export Corp (CPMIEC), and Aerospace Long-March International Trade Co Ltd (ALIT). The latter’s latest product is the M-20, which has been exported to Pakistan, where it known as the Hatf-9/Nasr. Capable of striking targets between 70km and 270km, the all-weather capable M-20, with a Mach 3 cruise speed, comes armed with both a 200kg unitary high-explosive (HE) blast-fragmentation warhead for engaging high-value and time-sensitive targets, as well as a sub-kiloton yield tactical nuclear warhead. Two M-20s housed inside cannisters are mounted on a 8 x 8 transporter/erector/launcher (TEL). For navigation purposes, use is made of a RLG-INS coupled to a GPS receiver (for receiving high-accuracy navigational updates in secure PY-code from China’s ‘Beidou’ constellation of GPS satellites), and an infra-red sensor for terminal homing that gives the missile a CEP of less than 10 metres.

TRISHUL: China’s NLOS-BSMs For Export & Hatf-9/Nasr/M-20 NLOS-BSM Explained

 

[Safriz]

Okay; now you fired that Nasr(s). After that what happens???

LOL, you seem to have as much (or as little) thought-processes as Musharraff.

Little wonder that Kargil took place. And ended as it did!!

For a diverged military assets...such as many armoured divisions attcking from dufferent direcrions many miles apart,how many nuclear weapons can be fired?
It has effectivenes within a few miles only.
So its not the silver bullet.
'shoot and scoot'...
Whoever fires the tactical nuke 'scoots' and disperses to attack in smaller pockets from different directions..
If one or two units get annihilated,others reman to push on with the attack or defence...
So there is no set formala like many suggest here..

 

[Albatross]

I think if nukes tip NASR is used against Indian forces, India would respond with a massive strike package of Conventional and Nuke weapons on all the known and unknown Military and Missile facilities of Pakistan. The aim would be to wipe out the armed forces of Pakistan's ability to launch another missile at India. The civilians would not be attacked in response to NASR.

The world would support India fully as Pakistan would be the first to use Nukes.

What do you think Pak would not have thought so earlier..Pak ra'ad cruise missile can now be launched from JF17,mirage and f 16 and two of them with a range of 350 km and nukes on tips...If pak decide to nuke india that would be with a mind to destroy all indians capabilities to response back means atleast a two dozens war palnes already in air with around 48 nukes and then another two dozen missiles launched from ground so a total of nearly 80 nukes in first strike would cripple india and yeah the flying jets would make sure no military installation is left ....Dont dream that Pak will just fire one nuke and then wait for India ...why else are we having more nukes than india all the time?

 

[The Deterrent]

I won't go into other two systems but stick to the one on the thread,

China’s NLOS-BSMs For Export & Hatf-9/Nasr/M-20 NLOS-BSM Explained
NLOS-BSMs of Chinese origin are presently being marketed by two state-owned entities: China National Precision Machinery Import & Export Corp (CPMIEC), and Aerospace Long-March International Trade Co Ltd (ALIT). The latter’s latest product is the M-20, which has been exported to Pakistan, where it known as the Hatf-9/Nasr. Capable of striking targets between 70km and 270km, the all-weather capable M-20, with a Mach 3 cruise speed, comes armed with both a 200kg unitary high-explosive (HE) blast-fragmentation warhead for engaging high-value and time-sensitive targets, as well as a sub-kiloton yield tactical nuclear warhead. Two M-20s housed inside cannisters are mounted on a 8 x 8 transporter/erector/launcher (TEL). For navigation purposes, use is made of a RLG-INS coupled to a GPS receiver (for receiving high-accuracy navigational updates in secure PY-code from China’s ‘Beidou’ constellation of GPS satellites), and an infra-red sensor for terminal homing that gives the missile a CEP of less than 10 metres.

TRISHUL: China’s NLOS-BSMs For Export & Hatf-9/Nasr/M-20 NLOS-BSM Explained

So you believed it because Mr. Sengupta said so?
Apparently, he was in a hurry...

1. Nasr has a range of 60 km, whereas M-20 has a maximum range of 270 km.
2. M-20 lacks nose-mounted fins for maneuvering, which are present on Nasr.
3. The Nasr launch vehicle carries FOUR canisterized missiles, while the M-20 carries two.
4. M-20 is the Chinese version of the Iskander Tactical BM, and is much bigger and heavier than Nasr.

 

[illusion8]

So you believed it because Mr. Sengupta said so?
Apparently, he was in a hurry...

1. Nasr has a range of 60 km, whereas M-20 has a maximum range of 270 km.
2. M-20 lacks nose-mounted fins for maneuvering, which are present on Nasr.
3. The Nasr launch vehicle carries FOUR canisterized missiles, while the M-20 carries two.
4. M-20 is the Chinese version of the Iskander Tactical BM, and is much bigger and heavier than Nasr.

Derivatives of it - doesn't negate my point of missiles being of Chinese or NK origins.

 

[timetravel]

What do you think Pak would not have thought so earlier..Pak ra'ad cruise missile can now be launched from JF17,mirage and f 16 and two of them with a range of 350 km and nukes on tips...If pak decide to nuke india that would be with a mind to destroy all indians capabilities to response back means atleast a two dozens war palnes already in air with around 48 nukes and then another two dozen missiles launched from ground so a total of nearly 80 nukes in first strike would cripple india and yeah the flying jets would make sure no military installation is left ....Dont dream that Pak will just fire one nuke and then wait for India ...why else are we having more nukes than india all the time?

so you mean after firing NASR (which is the first nuke) you would launch another 80 nukes at India in a first strike? Then whats the use of NASR?

this simply boils down to India going across IB and Pakistan responding with 80 Nukes. Still understandable. But then NASR has no use?

So am I right that with NASR (the first nuke) Pakistan would launch 80 Nukes at India as a first strike package? So in effect NASR is not intended to stop the escalation and infact the sign of all out nuclear war?

But isn't that opposite to whats being said in this thread so far by Pakistan folks that NASR is intended to make India stop the war. I think then NASR doesnt serve that purpose at all if you fire 80 Nukes along with NASR towards India? How does NASR serve to deter nuclear MAD then if Pakistan launches 80 nukes at India with NASR?

 

[Safriz]

Derivatives of it - doesn't negate my point of missiles being of Chinese or NK origins.

Discussed many times.
Pakistan has dufferent doctrine,and dont mind if its not indigenous as long as its available,cost effective and does the job.

 

[The Deterrent]

Derivatives of it - doesn't negate my point of missiles being of Chinese or NK origins.

I am not negating that point. Pakistan's missiles do have Chinese and North Korean origins. Do read:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...digenous-content-development.html#post2129497

But this specific system is made in Pakistan. You really think that Pakistanis didn't learn something from license-producing M-11s, Ghauris and modified development of Shaheen-I and development of Shaheen-2?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

For a diverged military assets...such as many armoured divisions attcking from dufferent direcrions many miles apart,how many nuclear weapons can be fired?
It has effectivenes within a few miles only.
So its not the silver bullet.
'shoot and scoot'...
Whoever fires the tactical nuke 'scoots' and disperses to attack in smaller pockets from different directions..
If one or two units get annihilated,others reman to push on with the attack or defence...
So there is no set formala like many suggest here..

I was not talking "tactics". The moment a Nuke (ANY NUKE) gets used, the level rises; nearly infinitely (to stratospheric Strategic levels).

That is why the Super-Powers just junked the concept of "tactical nukes". They understood that Nukes were "simply useless as Tactical Weapons".

Finally, Nukes are not "Silver Bullets"; they are simply the "Ultimate Cyanide Pill".

 

[Albatross]

so you mean after firing NASR (which is the first nuke) you would launch another 80 nukes at India in a first strike? Then whats the use of NASR?

this simply boils down to India going across IB and Pakistan responding with 80 Nukes. Still understandable. But then NASR has no use?

So am I right that with NASR (the first nuke) Pakistan would launch 80 Nukes at India as a first strike package? So in effect NASR is not intended to stop the escalation and infact the sign of all out nuclear war? Thats totally opposite to whats being said in this whole thread so far by all Pakistan folks that NASR is intended to make India stop the war. I think then NASR doesnt serve that purpose at all if you fire 80 Nukes along with NASR towards India?

My opinion may vary from others plus such situation may arise when Pak attacks Kashmir and india tries to opne international border like in 65 we can place these Nasr missiles to keep indian movements in check and just to make them realize what awaits them so they better exercise caution..But if Pakistan opts to strike with a nuke I dont think that would be only a single one as you can read in article Pak nuke program despite all financial hurdles is going at full pace the fastest at the moment in the whole world and our plutonium recator is also functional since feb last year while india will complete her first by 2016...Why all these expenditures we dont wanna hug those nuke they are to be used first to pressurize india over kashmir and if t doesnt work to get kashmir...So its upto you guys to decide which way but in both ways pak is in a win win position..

 

[timetravel]

My opinion may vary from others plus such situation may arise when Pak attacks Kashmir and india tries to opne international border like in 65 we can place these Nasr missiles to keep indian movements in check and just to make them realize what awaits them so they better exercise caution..But if Pakistan opts to strike with a nuke I dont think that would be only a single one as you can read in article Pak nuke program despite all financial hurdles is going at full pace the fastest at the moment in the whole world and our plutonium recator is also functional since feb last year while india will complete her first by 2016...Why all these expenditures we dont wanna hug those nuke they are to be used first to pressurize india over kashmir and if t doesnt work to get kashmir...So its upto you guys to decide which way but in both ways pak is in a win win position..

So Albatross is saying that Pakistan won fire a single of few NASR but if Pakistan decide to launch it would be a combination of NASR and 80-100 Nukes on India. I hope thats what you said @Albatross. Correct me if I am mistaken.

@Safriz do you and other Pakistan folks agree with the above statement? I have no problems if that's the doctrine. But then whats the use of NASR?

in any case NASR seems useless:

If only few NASRs are used, it would invite Indian response.
If as Albatross is saying 80 nukes are used in first strike, still it would invite Indian response.

 

[Safriz]

I was not talking "tactics". The moment a Nuke (ANY NUKE) gets used, the level rises; nearly infinitely (to stratospheric Strategic levels).

That is why the Super-Powers just junked the concept of "tactical nukes". They understood that Nukes were "simply useless as Tactical Weapons".

Finally, Nukes are not "Silver Bullets"; they are simply the "Ultimate Cyanide Pill".

You really need to read about effective radius of nuclear weapons and how small both india and Pakistan's stockpile is..
No its not the cyanide pill in pak ind scenarion..,

 

[A.Rafay]

Only in subsonic cruise missile , In BMs and Supersonic & Hypersonic CMs we are far ahead of you .

you just label your subsonic cm as a hypersonic missile it doesn't make a different, babur cruise missile is more advanced than brahmos.