Balance Of Air Power In South Asia

[danger007]

Thats what you don't understand. The PAF will hide what it is going to do, what it is going to procure and what it is going to make. If it can be hidden then it will be hidden. They normally announce the manufacture of or procurement of platforms like the F16s and JFTs since those can't be easily hidden. But when it comes to other capabilities like EW, ECM and/or ECCM and even AAMs, they prefer to keep things close to their chests. So your guess is as good as mine with regards to how will the counter the rafael but rest assured, they are not sleeping nor chasing a tail. PAF's electronic warfare capabilities are a very closely guarded secret and I can understand your frustration since their silence sends across the message that maybe these capabilites don't exist after all. Bear in mind, in 1998, the mere 3 week silence in conducting nuclear tests sent alarms thru the Pakistani people and joy thru the indian people that maybe Pakistan can't make nuclear weapons after all. Much to our joy and the dismay of the indians, that assumption proved to be erroneous. Also bear in mind that throughout the 90s, when the PAF supposedly did not possess and bvr capabilites, what stopped the indian air force from conducting air strikes in Pakistan during the kargil war in spite of supposedly enjoying an apparent qualitative and quantitative edge over the PAF? After all, they had the mkis, m2ks, mig29s, all with bvr capabilities, didn't they? None of our aircrafts had bvr so what stopped them from achieving air superiority in an environment where they desperately needed it? What stopped them? Yeah sure, they tried twice and were put in their place my shoulder fired sams but they could've easily used their bvr capabilites at high altitudes where the shoulder fired missiles couldn't reach them. So why didn't the iaf use that advantage? Needless to say, they would have IF that could have. The problem is that that could not. We may never know what did the PAF possess that stopped the iaf. So what can I say, the Pakistani military keeps things as secret as possible which sends across the wrong message of us not being prepared causing a lot frustration. But given the past history, I am confident that we are prepared. We will announce it when the time is right. Just have faith. Trust me on this, the PAF knows what it's doing.

You are just doing lip service without basic knowledge.. we don't have Mki during kargil.. i hope you better to have proper knowledge, before you post lengthy post.. Mki maiden first flight during that period..

 

[MastanKhan]

Thats what you don't understand. The PAF will hide what it is going to do, what it is going to procure and what it is going to make. If it can be hidden then it will be hidden. They normally announce the manufacture of or procurement of platforms like the F16s and JFTs since those can't be easily hidden. But when it comes to other capabilities like EW, ECM and/or ECCM and even AAMs, they prefer to keep things close to their chests. So your guess is as good as mine with regards to how will the counter the rafael but rest assured, they are not sleeping nor chasing a tail. PAF's electronic warfare capabilities are a very closely guarded secret and I can understand your frustration since their silence sends across the message that maybe these capabilites don't exist after all. Bear in mind, in 1998, the mere 3 week silence in conducting nuclear tests sent alarms thru the Pakistani people and joy thru the indian people that maybe Pakistan can't make nuclear weapons after all. Much to our joy and the dismay of the indians, that assumption proved to be erroneous. Also bear in mind that throughout the 90s, when the PAF supposedly did not possess and bvr capabilites, what stopped the indian air force from conducting air strikes in Pakistan during the kargil war in spite of supposedly enjoying an apparent qualitative and quantitative edge over the PAF? After all, they had the mkis, m2ks, mig29s, all with bvr capabilities, didn't they? None of our aircrafts had bvr so what stopped them from achieving air superiority in an environment where they desperately needed it? What stopped them? Yeah sure, they tried twice and were put in their place my shoulder fired sams but they could've easily used their bvr capabilites at high altitudes where the shoulder fired missiles couldn't reach them. So why didn't the iaf use that advantage? Needless to say, they would have IF that could have. The problem is that that could not. We may never know what did the PAF possess that stopped the iaf. So what can I say, the Pakistani military keeps things as secret as possible which sends across the wrong message of us not being prepared causing a lot frustration. But given the past history, I am confident that we are prepared. We will announce it when the time is right. Just have faith. Trust me on this, the PAF knows what it's doing.

Son,

The reason india did not attack during the kargil war was because ot could not afford to escalate the war---.

Because it had run out of ammunition for its 155mm howitzers shells---you cannot fight a war without your cannons.

Secondly---it was on the verge of an economical upheavel---war was not feasible---.

Musharraf had indian military where he wanted it to----it was the treason on part of the Paf---that the trap did not fall true.

Now as for secret procurements----it does not happen.

Stop lying to yourself---. I know why you are confident that Paf is ready---because your dreams will be SHATTERED when you learn the truth---and as you don't want to face the truth---you can stay in you make belief world---.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Son,

The reason india did not attack during the kargil war was because ot could not afford to escalate the war---.

Because it had run out of ammunition for its 155mm howitzers shells---you cannot fight a war without your cannons.

Secondly---it was on the verge of an economical upheavel---war was not feasible---.

Musharraf had indian military where he wanted it to----it was the treason on part of the Paf---that the trap did not fall true.

Now as for secret procurements----it does not happen.

Stop lying to yourself---. I know why you are confident that Paf is ready---because your dreams will be SHATTERED when you learn the truth---and as you don't want to face the truth---you can stay in you make belief world---.

I have never read bigger crap.

There was no shortage of ammunition; the guns were firing as the ersatz-mujahedin crept their way out, they were firing at ammo depots, they caused the maximum casualties. They were certainly firing right through the period of hostilities.

Secondly, there was no economic upheaval at that time, or later. Check your figures; this kind of tendentious, unadulterated rubbish comes very poorly from a respected member such as you.

Musharraf had nobody with him, not even his own government. I don't know if you are one of the dying breed of Musharraf fans, but the entire thing was an unseemly debacle, and he was a joint author.

Please stay out of the ranks of the fan-boys. This is an humble admirer's request. This is one of the two worst posts I have seen you make, and I am disappointed, deeply disappointed.

And I hope you will not have the bad manners to use 'son' to buttress your arguments if you choose to respond to this.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan, this is sad, you went from making interesting points and adding useful tidbits of information to the Uncle one hides in the attic because he makes absolutely absurd claims and makes completely ridiculous emotional statements. Were you rejected from PAF selection and are therefore extremely bitter? What is it? We want the rational Mastan back, the one without out of control emotional outbursts. Not too much to ask from a senior member, no?

Hi,

For the upteenth time---I was never in line for the paf---I used to be a gungho idiot like you----till I got to the U S---and then when in the late 80's when the scenario started of sanctions for pak F16's came up and the Paf started lying to the pakistanis---and the u s news media and those who favored pakistan started talking about it and talked about Paf's options---I understood the begining of the deceit of the Paf---.

Paf never told the pakistani public the truth about the sanctions---but rather lied and let the pakistanis public grow animosity towards the U S---. About the rest---I have talked about it many a times---.

I have never read bigger crap.

There was no shortage of ammunition; the guns were firing as the ersatz-mujahedin crept their way out, they were firing at ammo depots, they caused the maximum casualties. They were certainly firing right through the period of hostilities.

Secondly, there was no economic upheaval at that time, or later. Check your figures; this kind of tendentious, unadulterated rubbish comes very poorly from a respected member such as you.

Musharraf had nobody with him, not even his own government. I don't know if you are one of the dying breed of Musharraf fans, but the entire thing was an unseemly debacle, and he was a joint author.

Please stay out of the ranks of the fan-boys. This is an humble admirer's request. This is one of the two worst posts I have seen you make, and I am disappointed, deeply disappointed.

And I hope you will not have the bad manners to use 'son' to buttress your arguments if you choose to respond to this.

Hi,

Yeah bigger crap my----.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Mastan, this is sad, you went from making interesting points and adding useful tidbits of information to the Uncle one hides in the attic because he makes absolutely absurd claims and makes completely ridiculous emotional statements. Were you rejected from PAF selection and are therefore extremely bitter? What is it? We want the rational Mastan back, the one without out of control emotional outbursts. Not too much to ask from a senior member, no?

Thank you.

I hadn't read your post before reading, with horror, his post that I replied. Exactly; the uncle that one hides in the attic. But so painful considering that most of his posts, the vast majority, are logically argued (even though someone I admire very highly among the Pakistani members usually dismisses it with disdain).

Hi,

For the upteenth time---I was never in line for the paf---I used to be a gungho idiot like you----till I got to the U S---and then when in the late 80's when the scenario started of sanctions for pak F16's came up and the Paf started lying to the pakistanis---and the u s news media and those who favored pakistan started talking about it and talked about Paf's options---I understood the begining of the deceit of the Paf---.

Paf never told the pakistani public the truth about the sanctions---but rather lied and let the pakistanis public grow animosity towards the U S---. About the rest---I have talked about it many a times---.



Hi,

Yeah bigger crap my----.

Stunning logic, astonishing facts. YOU MUST NOT NEGLECT YOUR MEDICATION. It could be dangerous.

 

[Jammer]

Hi,

For the upteenth time---I was never in line for the paf---I used to be a gungho idiot like you----till I got to the U S---and then when in the late 80's when the scenario started of sanctions for pak F16's came up and the Paf started lying to the pakistanis---and the u s news media and those who favored pakistan started talking about it and talked about Paf's options---I understood the begining of the deceit of the Paf---.

Paf never told the pakistani public the truth about the sanctions---but rather lied and let the pakistanis public grow animosity towards the U S---. About the rest---I have talked about it many a times---.

Hi,

Yeah bigger crap my----.

Thank you.

I hadn't read your post before reading, with horror, his post that I replied. Exactly; the uncle that one hides in the attic. But so painful considering that most of his posts, the vast majority, are logically argued (even though someone I admire very highly among the Pakistani members usually dismisses it with disdain).



Stunning logic, astonishing facts. YOU MUST NOT NEGLECT YOUR MEDICATION. It could be dangerous.

He's a sad mess. He's condescending and rude calling people "Son" and "idiot' etc over numerous posts and numerous people, presenting outlandish/immature (and personally distracting) and unsubstantiated ideas about the air power equation. Yet, he is allowed to continue to post bile and counter productive BS forever. Mods and Admins please take notice @Horus, @Oscar please review Mastan's responses over time and tell me of I am wrong, the man uses bullying tactics to try to prove a point and is disrespectful towards new and old members alike, he doesn't care. I know for a fact that complaints have been made officially before, yet this guy is allowed to operate and therefore dilute the intelligent discourse of this forum.

 

[SQ8]

the man uses bullying tactics to try to prove a point and is disrespectful towards new and old members alike, he doesn't care. I know for a fact that complaints have been made officially before, yet this guy is allowed to operate and therefore dilute the intelligent discourse of this forum.

That is rather unfortunate but it only shows weakness of argument.

 

[Jammer]

That is rather unfortunate but it only shows weakness of argument.

No it does not Oscar there is no excuse for calling another an 'Idiot' , "Son", "Kid',"Stupid" etc. etc. are you kidding me! In fact it shows a blatant lack of respect and ability to intelligently present your opinion, its when your argument is weak and ridiculous is when you resort to personal attacks. Since when has that been okay on this forum? Can I and others be given free reign to insult each other to prove a point? Please do not mistake his restraint towards you as a senior moderator and others with power on this forum cloud your judgement, he is a menace! Review his recent posts and you will see what I am talking about. I am all for arguments and debate but I am not here to be downright insulted, surely you can appreciate what I am saying.

 

[SQ8]

No it does not Oscar there is no excuse for calling another an 'Idiot' , "Son", "Kid',"Stupid" etc. etc. are you kidding me! In fact it shows a blatant lack of respect and ability to intelligently present your opinion, its when your argument is weak and ridiculous is when you resort to personal attacks. Since when has that been okay on this forum? Can I and others be given free reign to insult each other to prove a point? Please do not mistake his restraint towards you as a senior moderator and others with power on this forum cloud your judgement, he is a menace! Review his recent posts and you will see what I am talking about. I am all for arguments and debate but I am not here to be downright insulted, surely you can appreciate what I am saying.

Please use the report system, reporting is our best help.
As for this thread, if he cannot restrain his argument to be more respectful and not parrot the same 5 lines again and again and again. He will face a ban from threads.
This goes for anyone.

 

[Jammer]

Please use the report system, reporting is our best help.
As for this thread, if he cannot restrain his argument to be more respectful and not parrot the same 5 lines again and again and again. He will face a ban from threads.
This goes for anyone.

Oscar I have reported him at three (3!) different occasions but to no avail, his consistently illogical and rude behavior continues unchecked.

 

[amardeep mishra]

The reason india did not attack during the kargil war was because ot could not afford to escalate the war---.

Because it had run out of ammunition for its 155mm howitzers shells---you cannot fight a war without your cannons.

Secondly---it was on the verge of an economical upheavel---war was not feasible---.

Hi dear @MastanKhan
I would tend to disagree with some of your remarks.The first and foremost reason as to why india did not cross the LOC was ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE. He had strictly instructed the military to not cross borders and attack pakistan,even when a lot of generals pushed hard for that. Secondly,NO,IA hadnt run out of arty shells.They had barely depleted 20% of their reserves.Kindly read more reports.
As for the economy though,i agree,Indian economy was not as robust as it is today so escalating a war wouldnt have served any purpose.Things are very different now and the "differential" is widening more and more in india's favour be it economy,FDI,industrial research,space research etc etc

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi dear @MastanKhan
I would tend to disagree with some of your remarks.The first and foremost reason as to why india did not cross the LOC was ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE. He had strictly instructed the military to not cross borders and attack pakistan,even when a lot of generals pushed hard for that. Secondly,NO,IA hadnt run out of arty shells.They had barely depleted 20% of their reserves.Kindly read more reports.
As for the economy though,i agree,Indian economy was not as robust as it is today so escalating a war wouldnt have served any purpose.Things are very different now and the "differential" is widening more and more in india's favour be it economy,FDI,industrial research,space research etc etc

Hi,

You can read as many reports as you want to---. 10--20---30 years down the road---when you find the true answer matching mine---you can apologize in my absentia.

Oscar I have reported him at three (3!) different occasions but to no avail, his consistently illogical and rude behavior continues unchecked.

Hi,

8 years on the website---and seems like your only major indulgence this year is targeting me---.

If you had put some effort and participated a little more---no one would have cared about me.

 

[amardeep mishra]

You can read as many reports as you want to---. 10--20---30 years down the road---when you find the true answer matching mine---you can apologize in my absentia.

@MastanKhan
I dont need to apologize because I "read" a lot of reports and do my homework much more throughly than a LOT of members here. I have interacted with people at helm of affairs at this side of the border and thanks to a much more transparent system in place here,they have written extensively about it. I wonder your rationality behind making claims that are far cry from reality?Anyways,maybe you should start doing a bit more research?

 

[Jammer]

Hi,

You can read as many reports as you want to---. 10--20---30 years down the road---when you find the true answer matching mine---you can apologize in my absentia.



Hi,

8 years on the website---and seems like your only major indulgence this year is targeting me---.

If you had put some effort and participated a little more---no one would have cared about me.

I don't think its a requirement to constantly post on the forum to be considered a forum member, I have other interests and a life, however, I do enjoy reading good informative posts that keep me up to date on new developments. Lately reading your posts has been an absolute displeasure, myself and others are not targeting you, we are fed up with your rudeness and ill thought statements. Check your behavior, be less judgmental and all will be ok.

 

[MastanKhan]

He's a sad mess. He's condescending and rude calling people "Son" and "idiot' etc over numerous posts and numerous people, presenting outlandish/immature (and personally he doesn't care. I know for a fact that complaints have been made officially before, yet this guy is allowed to operate and therefore dilute the intelligent discourse of this forum.

Sir,

Please kindly allow me to say that you have been a nobody on this forum---and this by no means shows any disrespect to you---.

But with less than 9 posts a year---you have not been a part of sharing INTELLIGENT DISCOURSE on this forum---. But when you have 25000 posts---many maybe good---but some maybe bad---it is not perfect all the time---.

It is easy to be a critic---why don't you jump in the arena and start writing---please kindly allow us to rip your posts apart ---and wait for your 'reposte'.

Now look at @Joe Shearer ---a very good man that I have great respect for---just got twisted bad.

Does he think that he does not have any stupid or idiotic posts---he has quite a few---. Do I lash out at him---or do I jump on him at every opportunity that I get to put him down----no---because I know that he is an intelligent respectable senior member---and out of respect---I stay away from commenting on his posts most of the times---even though I know that they are flawed and lack truth.

On a rare occasion or two maybe I would comment on his posts---but I don't make it my right to put him down at every opportune moment---.

Again---my apologies for offending your senses---but it is life---shit happens---Donald Trump gets elected---.

I don't think its a requirement to constantly post on the forum to be considered a forum member, I have other interests and a life, however, I do enjoy reading good informative posts that keep me up to date on new developments. Lately reading your posts has been an absolute displeasure, myself and others are not targeting you, we are fed up with your rudeness and ill thought statements. Check your behavior, be less judgmental and all will be ok.

Hi,

There is a very easy solution---.

Please click on my screen name---go to my profile page----click on the ignore list---and I will be out of your life.

See---from your last few posts---it looks like---you are exactly the person or the group of people---in the Paf that I have been writing about---and maybe---lately----I might have stumbled upon something and written about something---that has touched a nerve---hit very close to home---and you are now jumping out of your shoes---.

Otherwise my rhetoric against the Paf has not changed---maybe a little mellower now and not as often and detailed as it used to be before.

So---that is what my surprise is---what did I say to get this reaction from you? That is what is most interesting.