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Balakot attempted attack. Reality under the misinformation war.

BHarwana

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Disclamer: This thread provides accounts of events from both sides and then a small bias analysis of the events. Mostly it could be considered opinion.

It is 2019 and world has seen much air to ground bombing so people forget the attempted ground attack of 26th Feb and moved on to rare air to air war of 2019. This is for some interested minds to debate and discuss the events to analyze your enemy.

Indian side of story.

Date/Time of incident.
26th February 2019 at 3:30 am Pakistan time.

Weapons and delivery systems used.
Upgraded Mirage-2000H of IAF (Manufacture: France)

Number of Air crafts used: 12.
4 Mirages equipped with Ground attack Payload
8 Mirages equipped with Air to Air Payload

Package of IAF Mirage-2000H:
Upgraded of the avionics suite ( glass cockpit, inertial navigation system, open system architecture computer etc.) and the new Thales AESA radar and electronic warfare suite ( radar warning receiver, self- protection jammer etc), and arming the aircraft with MBDA MICA air-to-air missiles that have beyond visual range.

Spice 2000 (Manufacturer: Israel)

Guidance:
EO-Guidance
Satellite Guidance GPS
Man-In-The-Loop Guidance
charge-coupled device (CCD)
Infrared homing
Inertial navigation system (INS)

Warhead:
Mk. 84 (907 kg)

Range:
100 km.

Popeye (missile)

Guidance:
Inertial navigation system (INS)
IIR Guidance
Tv Guidance

Engine:
Single-stage solid rocket

Range:
78km

Warhead:
340 kg (750 lb) blast fragmentation or 360 kg (800 lb) I-800 penetrating

Point of Air space violation by IAF:

Kiran Valley near Muzaffarabad

Point of Payload Ground contact:


Jabba near Balakot

Flight distance of Guided Munition:

60 km

Flight distance.jpg



Damage done by Air strikes verified by official and independent sources:

Pine Trees: 15 to 19
Wild life: Crow Qty 1
Humans: Nil
Structures: Nil

Damage reports source:

Associated Press visited the area on 26 February and saw craters and damaged trees. The villagers they met reported no casualties. A team from Al Jazeera visited the site two days after the strikes and noted "splintered pine trees and rocks" which were strewn across the four blast craters. The local hospital officials and residents asserted that they did not come across any casualty or wounded people.

Satellite data assessments:

Satellite-data analysis by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's Nathan Ruser concluded that there is "no apparent evidence of more extensive damage and on the face of it does not validate Indian claims regarding the effect of the strikes. Michael Sheldon, a digital forensics analyst from Atlantic Council did another independent investigation on the issue which asserted that no damage was inflicted to any infrastructure around the target-site. It concluded that "something appeared to have gone wrong in the targeting process" and that the botch-up was mysterious in light of the autonomous nature of the supposedly used missiles. A Reuters investigation based on high-resolution satellite imagery by Planet Labs noted an unchanged landscape when compared to an April 2018 satellite photo. It noted that "there were no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack".

Image Proof:

2019-03-07T175614Z_470809701_RC1E1C806940_RTRMADP_3_INDIA-KASHMIR-PAKISTAN-MADRASA-(Read-Only)_resources1.jpg



Dead Crow.jpg


____________________________________________________________

Analysis of Attack

Indian Jets violated the Pakistani Air space? Yes they did of few kilometers possibly something between 3 to 7 kilometers.
India released the payload? Yes they did.
Pakistani Air Force intercepted them? Yes they did and India retreated.

Till this point the story is verified by both sides but moving beyond this the reports of the story are conflicting as India claimed it carried out precision strikes and killed as much as 300 terrorist. Where as Pakistani side claimed they was only damage to trees and a bird Crow lost its life. Now lets conduct an analysis of the situation keeping in account the weapons capabilities.

For conducting a precision strikes with weapons such as Spice 2000 and Popeye missiles India required a ton of intelligence which included GPS coordinates from ground assets to satellite surveillance of the area both prior to mission and in real time. Plus India also requires UAV flight path footage of point of incursion to targeted site. Plus India also needs weather information of area of flight path as the combat terrain is very high altitude with thin air and Humidity level information along with air pressure and wind speed is also required in current time because India was using Glide bomb Spice 2000 along Popeye.

So how were the strikes planed on Balakot?
In this specific mission India used Spice 2000 as primary payload and Popeye as secondary payload for 100% kill confirmation of the target. The weapons release with keeping target terrain in view, Distance of target in view and battle environment (Highly defended and monitored) in view has to be very high altitude.

Now coming to the point what went wrong?

Looking at the place of impact and assessing the damage and reading the after incident statement it could be easily understood what went wrong with IAF mission and why it failed to achieve it goal of 300 terrorist kills.

Starting with weapons system. Both weapons systems (Spice 2000 and Popeye) are based on multiple guidance combination for mission achievement. So what info India could have fed the weapons package to achieve this mission.

A. Spice 2000 is heavily dependent on EO-Guidance (electro Optical Giudance) coupled with Man-in-the-loop Guidance and Popeye TV Guidance This required that India has to dominate Air space from the point of release to the point of Impact on target. PAF is a strong Air Force and India dominating the Air Space with only 8 Mirage2000H for this time period is out of question and interception of PAF forced India to retreat and let go of 3 Guidance sensors on 2 weapons packages. It means India lost the data link for EO-Guidance, Man-in-the-loop Guidance for Spice and TV Guidance for Popeye.

B. Infrared Homing for Spice 2000 and IIR Guidance for Popeye. Looking at the area being targeted the IIR Guidance and Infrared homing is only activated at last part of the flight when the targeted building is well within sensor range which could be between 5000 to 3000 meters depending on the sensors of the system and has to manually updated from the Aircraft which released the payload staying in range of the weapons system. But successful interception of PAF as told by DG ISPR proves that India had to ditch this sensor as well because the final stage of activation required India to again stay in the area and be a dominate air force for successful bombing strike. Plus the high altitude mountain terrain of the area is a big problem for a successful data-link between the weapon and launch aircraft in the final stages of sensor swap and target accusation.

C. Did India had ground assets for GPS and laser distance intelligence collection? The place which India chose for targeting is a very remote area with small village and very closed community and anyone from outside coming into the area for surveillance is very difficult so India required some surveillance asset from with in the village community and requiting such asset and the providing such asset with surveillance tools for info gathering is not possible due to the location of the target and amount of counter Pakistani intelligence in the area.

D. GPS guidance through satellite intelligence this is the only and last option India is left with in these weapons system for targeting the installment it wishes to destroy. First to achieve this goal India requires heavy satellite image monitoring of the area for pinpointing the target. India don't has the capability of ground monitoring surveillance on its on to acquire target coordinates so India would have relied on foreign intelligence for this purpose which could have come from Israel USA or France but thick vegetation and cloudy weather in the area restricts satellites from such surveillance activities and relying only on GPS coordinates turn a smart bomb like Spice 2000 into a dumb bomb. Plus there are high chances of GPS blocking via Pakistani electronic warfare.

Conclusion.

The quick reaction time by PAF forced India to let go of the main guidance sensors for this mission and IAF was forced to bailout because of PAF timely interception. Misinformation of target coordinates, lack of real-time weather information and lack of data update to INS guidance system resulted in the failure of mission. Thus India was only able to destroy trees and kill a crow in this whole mission. Further more the unsuccessful mission can also be blamed at equipment as the system had never been operational in such high altitude threat environment. It can also be blamed at the training of the IAF pilots as such precision strikes require intensive before-mission training and live practice. The major credit of IAF mission failure goes to PAF short response time and quick interception which made India forgo it main sensors of weapons package.

Major intelligence failure of India was that the place it intended to target was not a terrorist camp but a Quran learning institution for local kids. So it shows India had a major intelligence failure from the very start.

After incident Indian political statements:

Modi says ‘outcome’ would have been different if India had Rafale jets

https://arynews.tv/en/narendra-modi-rafale-jets/




Note:
This is an opinion based analysis, Mods and Think tanks are advised to add to the OP for better assessment of the situation.
 
Last edited:
Video for reference installation of Popeye on South Korean Jet.


Loading of Spice 2000 and targeting via South Korean Air force. Video for reference


Video of Israeli Popeye and Spice interceptions by Syria.

 
Anyway, the IAF Chief BS is least bothered and can’t care less about the “nuisance” of the details which is the domain of Doval the Devil ganging up with the Last Afgans!!! Last time I checked he was cracking jokes on the seating arrangement of the PAF Chief in a fighter taking part in a ceremonial fly past....
 
Thats was the post i m searching as saw very early in morning and later it down under useless posts great analyses @BHarwana sahib but can u describe some more detail does not its should be low level flying mission (but have to consider terrain too ) and discussing all about our Airforce i didn't saw an single post discussing or mentioning our ground defence system
 
Thats was the post i m searching as saw very early in morning and later it down under useless posts great analyses @BHarwana sahib but can u describe some more detail does not its should be low level flying mission (but have to consider terrain too ) and discussing all about our Airforce i didn't saw an single post discussing or mentioning our ground defence system
It has to be a high altitude mission because the choice of weapons India used. If the missiles fired were just Popeye then it could have been low altitude but India used spice 2000 so they went into high altitude. This gave spice 2000 enough boost to cover required distance. Plus high altitude keeps India safe from our ground based air defences like MANPADS and AAA. There were two major mistakes of India in this whole mission. 1 They underestimated PAF and JF-17. 2 They did not brought terrain factor into account. To get a better picture of such missions one has to look towards Syria because such French weaponary and Israeli weaponary is being used in Syria. Israel conducted a similar mission in Syria when Israeli Air Force released spice 2000 and Popeye from Lebanese air space towards Damascus airport last year. This tells us that India was sitting in Israel at that time studying this mission.

Now how Syria countered it? The video is post few posts up where Syria intercepted the bombs. Other day when I read DGISPR on Sputnik it all hinted that Pakistan is going to now establish Syria like defence system against cruise and glide bombs. That is why Pakistan is in talks with Russia.

India tried to get the capability but Israeli and French designed mission capability is not good which India used. This is flawed. Pakistan had good defensive capability. It was all evident from this episode of Indian aggression.
 
That thing which indian don't understand IAF that day followed standard protocol "when mission parameters compromised (like got detected early abandoned it )heroes for bollywood not for real life.Still trying to find how much they stayed in our airspace only info i got by ZH (honestly i don't take that man seriously but consider he was right ) they were in our air space for 2:51 mins (judging Mirage speed 9 miles per min half time reaching half retreat ) they must enter around 20km before detection.Also note down latest development indians after 2 weeks and yesterday our DG ISPR both start saying ""we did operations from our own air space """ means both reached on some understanding
 
Disclamer: This thread provides accounts of events from both sides and then a small bias analysis of the events. Mostly it could be considered opinion.

It is 2019 and world has seen much air to ground bombing so people forget the attempted ground attack of 26th Feb and moved on to rare air to air war of 2019. This is for some interested minds to debate and discuss the events to analyze your enemy.

Indian side of story.

Date/Time of incident.
26th February 2019 at 3:30 am Pakistan time.

Weapons and delivery systems used.
Upgraded Mirage-2000H of IAF (Manufacture: France)

Number of Air crafts used: 12.
4 Mirages equipped with Ground attack Payload
8 Mirages equipped with Air to Air Payload

Package of IAF Mirage-2000H:
Upgraded of the avionics suite ( glass cockpit, inertial navigation system, open system architecture computer etc.) and the new Thales AESA radar and electronic warfare suite ( radar warning receiver, self- protection jammer etc), and arming the aircraft with MBDA MICA air-to-air missiles that have beyond visual range.

Spice 2000 (Manufacturer: Israel)

Guidance:
EO-Guidance
Satellite Guidance GPS
Man-In-The-Loop Guidance
charge-coupled device (CCD)
Infrared homing
Inertial navigation system (INS)

Warhead:
Mk. 84 (907 kg)

Range:
100 km.

Popeye (missile)

Guidance:
Inertial navigation system (INS)
IIR Guidance
Tv Guidance

Engine:
Single-stage solid rocket

Range:
78km

Warhead:
340 kg (750 lb) blast fragmentation or 360 kg (800 lb) I-800 penetrating

Point of Air space violation by IAF:

Kiran Valley near Muzaffarabad

Point of Payload Ground contact:


Jabba near Balakot

Flight distance of Guided Munition:

60 km

View attachment 549351


Damage done by Air strikes verified by official and independent sources:

Pine Trees: 15 to 19
Wild life: Crow Qty 1
Humans: Nil
Structures: Nil

Damage reports source:

Associated Press visited the area on 26 February and saw craters and damaged trees. The villagers they met reported no casualties. A team from Al Jazeera visited the site two days after the strikes and noted "splintered pine trees and rocks" which were strewn across the four blast craters. The local hospital officials and residents asserted that they did not come across any casualty or wounded people.

Satellite data assessments:

Satellite-data analysis by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's Nathan Ruser concluded that there is "no apparent evidence of more extensive damage and on the face of it does not validate Indian claims regarding the effect of the strikes. Michael Sheldon, a digital forensics analyst from Atlantic Council did another independent investigation on the issue which asserted that no damage was inflicted to any infrastructure around the target-site. It concluded that "something appeared to have gone wrong in the targeting process" and that the botch-up was mysterious in light of the autonomous nature of the supposedly used missiles. A Reuters investigation based on high-resolution satellite imagery by Planet Labs noted an unchanged landscape when compared to an April 2018 satellite photo. It noted that "there were no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack".

Image Proof:

2019-03-07T175614Z_470809701_RC1E1C806940_RTRMADP_3_INDIA-KASHMIR-PAKISTAN-MADRASA-(Read-Only)_resources1.jpg



View attachment 549352

____________________________________________________________

Analysis of Attack

Indian Jets violated the Pakistani Air space? Yes they did of few kilometers possibly something between 3 to 7 kilometers.
India released the payload? Yes they did.
Pakistani Air Force intercepted them? Yes they did and India retreated.

Till this point the story is verified by both sides but moving beyond this the reports of the story are conflicting as India claimed it carried out precision strikes and killed as much as 300 terrorist. Where as Pakistani side claimed they was only damage to trees and a bird Crow lost its life. Now lets conduct an analysis of the situation keeping in account the weapons capabilities.

For conducting a precision strikes with weapons such as Spice 2000 and Popeye missiles India required a ton of intelligence which included GPS coordinates from ground assets to satellite surveillance of the area both prior to mission and in real time. Plus India also requires UAV flight path footage of point of incursion to targeted site. Plus India also needs weather information of area of flight path as the combat terrain is very high altitude with thin air and Humidity level information along with air pressure and wind speed is also required in current time because India was using Glide bomb Spice 2000 along Popeye.

So how were the strikes planed on Balakot?
In this specific mission India used Spice 2000 as primary payload and Popeye as secondary payload for 100% kill confirmation of the target. The weapons release with keeping target terrain in view, Distance of target in view and battle environment (Highly defended and monitored) in view has to be very high altitude.

Now coming to the point what went wrong?

Looking at the place of impact and assessing the damage and reading the after incident statement it could be easily understood what went wrong with IAF mission and why it failed to achieve it goal of 300 terrorist kills.

Starting with weapons system. Both weapons systems (Spice 2000 and Popeye) are based on multiple guidance combination for mission achievement. So what info India could have fed the weapons package to achieve this mission.

A. Spice 2000 is heavily dependent on EO-Guidance (electro Optical Giudance) coupled with Man-in-the-loop Guidance and Popeye TV Guidance This required that India has to dominate Air space from the point of release to the point of Impact on target. PAF is a strong Air Force and India dominating the Air Space with only 8 Mirage2000H for this time period is out of question and interception of PAF forced India to retreat and let go of 3 Guidance sensors on 2 weapons packages. It means India lost the data link for EO-Guidance, Man-in-the-loop Guidance for Spice and TV Guidance for Popeye.

B. Infrared Homing for Spice 2000 and IIR Guidance for Popeye. Looking at the area being targeted the IIR Guidance and Infrared homing is only activated at last part of the flight when the targeted building is well within sensor range which could be between 5000 to 3000 meters depending on the sensors of the system and has to manually updated from the Aircraft which released the payload staying in range of the weapons system. But successful interception of PAF as told by DG ISPR proves that India had to ditch this sensor as well because the final stage of activation required India to again stay in the area and be a dominate air force for successful bombing strike. Plus the high altitude mountain terrain of the area is a big problem for a successful data-link between the weapon and launch aircraft in the final stages of sensor swap and target accusation.

C. Did India had ground assets for GPS and laser distance intelligence collection? The place which India chose for targeting is a very remote area with small village and very closed community and anyone from outside coming into the area for surveillance is very difficult so India required some surveillance asset from with in the village community and requiting such asset and the providing such asset with surveillance tools for info gathering is not possible due to the location of the target and amount of counter Pakistani intelligence in the area.

D. GPS guidance through satellite intelligence this is the only and last option India is left with in these weapons system for targeting the installment it wishes to destroy. First to achieve this goal India requires heavy satellite image monitoring of the area for pinpointing the target. India don't has the capability of ground monitoring surveillance on its on to acquire target coordinates so India would have relied on foreign intelligence for this purpose which could have come from Israel USA or France but thick vegetation and cloudy weather in the area restricts satellites from such surveillance activities and relying only on GPS coordinates turn a smart bomb like Spice 2000 into a dumb bomb. Plus there are high chances of GPS blocking via Pakistani electronic warfare.

Conclusion.

The quick reaction time by PAF forced India to let go of the main guidance sensors for this mission and IAF was forced to bailout because of PAF timely interception. Misinformation of target coordinates, lack of real-time weather information and lack of data update to INS guidance system resulted in the failure of mission. Thus India was only able to destroy trees and kill a crow in this whole mission. Further more the unsuccessful mission can also be blamed at equipment as the system had never been operational in such high altitude threat environment. It can also be blamed at the training of the IAF pilots as such precision strikes require intensive before-mission training and live practice. The major credit of IAF mission failure goes to PAF short response time and quick interception which made India forgo it main sensors of weapons package.

Major intelligence failure of India was that the place it intended to target was not a terrorist camp but a Quran learning institution for local kids. So it shows India had a major intelligence failure from the very start.

After incident Indian political statements:

Modi says ‘outcome’ would have been different if India had Rafale jets

https://arynews.tv/en/narendra-modi-rafale-jets/




Note:
This is an opinion based analysis, Mods and Think tanks are advised to add to the OP for better assessment of the situation.
there was an attempt to become 'israel' in this region which means the indians can do whatever they like in their neighborhood with american backing as israel does. we now know of the israeli help in this plan among others.

A huge blow has been delivered to this plan as we know, that right wing c#nt john bolton gave there plan a go ahead. to no other than the NSA doogling doval. Many many years of very successful diplomacy has been drained in matter of minutes.

then on the flip side the attack on camp bastion/shorabak which apparently according to some had indo-israelis there! unconfirmed reports mind you but the silence after the attack can add weight behind the speculations
 
Last edited:
Major intelligence failure of India was that the place it intended to target was not a terrorist camp but a Quran learning institution for local kids. So it shows India had a major intelligence failure from the very start.

There are no terrorist camps in Kashmir. So their can't be any intelligence on terrorist camps.
India has nothing beyond claims... which Pakistan habitually don't object on international forums.

Basically axis of evil have co-ordinates of each and every Quran schools in Pakistan, and that's the target.... learning, school, Quran.

Eventually, school was hit or not but royal decree of Pakistan had forced closed many Quran schools & free hospitals etc.

May i ask, if Sheriyar Afridi managed to find some favorable clue against Saudi Arabia, which may have legitimize the royal orders a bit? obviously not yet!

India, US, Israel etc. know very well that Islam in Pakistan is divided into unaccountable sects. which has roots in Hadeis books provided by enemies of Allah, so clearly Quran is the enemy#1 for them, which is not suppose to be read or worst understood.
No wonder there are no eye brows raised in Pakistan and world wide, when India attempted to bomb Quran school.
Imagine if Pakistan had retaliated by bombing a farm owned by hindu! Instantly, US and Indian media would have been crying foul.

India always achieve what they want, through Pakistani politicians but never through war.

This tells us that India was sitting in Israel at that time studying this mission.
This must be told to Iran as well!
 
Last edited:
There are no terrorist camps in Kashmir. So their can't be any intelligence on terrorist camps.
India has nothing beyond claims... which Pakistan habitually don't object on international forums.

Basically axis of evil have co-ordinates of each and every Quran schools in Pakistan, and that's the target.... learning, school, Quran.

Eventually, school was hit or not but royal decree of Pakistan had forced closed many Quran schools & free hospitals etc.

May i ask, if Sheriyar Afridi managed to find some favorable clue against Saudi Arabia, which may have legitimize the royal orders a bit? obviously not yet!

India, US, Israel etc. know very well that Islam in Pakistan is divided into unaccountable sects. which has roots in Hadeis books provided by enemies of Allah, so clearly Quran is the enemy#1 for them, which is not suppose to be read or worst understood.
No wonder there are no eye brows raised in Pakistan and world wide, if India attempted to bomb Quran school.
Imagine if Pakistan had retaliated by bombing a farm owned by hindu! Instantly, US and Indian media would have been crying foul.

India always achieve what they want, through Pakistani politicians but never through war.

This must be told to Iran as well!

This is a more technical based thread so please keep the discussion that way and don't bring in political issues here. Open a thread in the political section and discuss these concerns there. Thank you very kind of you. Don't derail the thread please.

there was an attempt to become 'israel' in this region which means the indians can do whatever they like in their neighborhood with american backing as israel does. we now know of the israeli help in this plan among others.

A huge blow has been delivered to this plan as we know, that right wing c#nt john bolton gave there plan a go ahead. to no other than the NSA doogling doval. Many many years of very successful diplomacy has been drained in matter of minutes.

then on the flip side the attack on camp bastion/shorabak which apparently according to some had indo-israelis there! unconfirmed reports mind you but the silence after the attack can add weight behind the speculations

There is much that can be learned from Syrian war. Specifically Israeli based missions there. If you recall few months back a similar operation that happened in Syria done via Israel. Syrian counter was missile defense system. In Syria they used F-16 loaded with Spice and Popeye, Syrian counter was intercepting the missile. In Pakistani they used same payload using Mirages and Pakistani counter was deny them Air superiority by interception. Now a merger of Syrian tactics and Pakistani tactics will ensure complete failure of this novice capability of India. Along deploying CAP and Interception Pakistan should go for Tor-2E system and Pantsir S-1 for defense. This will ensure the capability which India is looking for in shape of Rafale Jets will be fully denied and Indian billions spent on Rafale deal will go to waste. just my opinion.
 
This is a more technical based thread so please keep the discussion that way and don't bring in political issues here. Open a thread in the political section and discuss these concerns there. Thank you very kind of you. Don't derail the thread please.
Technical plus political, i could easily filter out all of political agenda, but since you asked, i let you ride solo.
I know otherwise, your team would start quoting mothers, as always.
 
@Path-Finder
India is trying to employ Israeli type area dominance where Israel using European and US help dominates the region but what India forgets Pakistan is not Syria. Pakistan even has the capability to turn India into Syria. India myth of conventional superiority has been debunked.

Technical plus political, i could easily filter out all of political agenda, but since you asked, i let you ride solo.
I know otherwise, your team would start quoting mothers, as always.
Very kind of you. thank you. I don't have any team bro.
 
There is much that can be learned from Syrian war. Specifically Israeli based missions there. If you recall few months back a similar operation that happened in Syria done via Israel. Syrian counter was missile defense system. In Syria they used F-16 loaded with Spice and Popeye, Syrian counter was intercepting the missile. In Pakistani they used same payload using Mirages and Pakistani counter was deny them Air superiority by interception. Now a merger of Syrian tactics and Pakistani tactics will ensure complete failure of this novice capability of India. Along deploying CAP and Interception Pakistan should go for Tor-2E system and Pantsir S-1 for defense. This will ensure the capability which India is looking for in shape of Rafale Jets will be fully denied and Indian billions spent on Rafale deal will go to waste. just my opinion.

israel has adversaries who do not possess a decent professional airforce like PAF. Their equipment is not worthy to be in service its shoddy with extremely poor maintenance. Namely Syria but Lebanese air force is not known to me. Their AD is very old and not capable of challenging ECM israel has. Syria has gotten a boost from Russia recently which has been a massive help to them.

The israelis go unchallenged because they have a massive tech and tactical advantage but the same tactical use against Pakistan was a very very silly mistake. The use of israeli tactics as you pointed out has failed them because they overestimated their abilities with israeli tech. They thought Pakistan was in stone age in terms of its ECM capabilities, tactical doctrine. The use of Pakistan's Denel Raptor/H4 to strike back with all its assets has give the whole world a shake-up.


well to counter such smart muntion and low level threats that are far more dangerous, the best strategy is to have a Tri-system. We have plenty of AA guns with their purposeful radar for targeting. Its best to have a Tri-system consisting of laser, rocket and guns.

need to tandem a good laser system and a good rocket system like the Denel Cheetah C-RAM that can take out artillery and mortar shell and any other system that flies low or towards the defences like an anti radiation missile for the Skyguard radar. The future of Air-Defence is going to have lasers because they are far more accurate and if applied with AA guns and Rockets.

Dnl95jqUYAAnpkZ.jpg


I am a massive fan of the Tor system it would be nice to see it in deployment in Syria to take on israeli strikes. The problem is the Pantsir unfortunately was handed to Syrians who were far to relaxed in their work and once a vehicle has spent its ammo it needs to be reloaded. They caught one that had spent its ammo, the crew were just chilling. maybe they didn't have the reloads available who knows but we all saw it being knocked out.

At least with Pakistan's AD we know they are pro's at their work however vulnerabilities need to be addressed.

@Path-Finder
India is trying to employ Israeli type area dominance where Israel using European and US help dominates the region but what India forgets Pakistan is not Syria. Pakistan even has the capability to turn India into Syria. India myth of conventional superiority has been debunked.
indeed, the shock was when military heads from western nations called COAS. They for some reason purchased indian strength philosophy. thanks to indians selling their overconfidence and machoism as the hoods in the region was deflated.
 
israel has adversaries who do not possess a decent professional airforce like PAF. Their equipment is not worthy to be in service its shoddy with extremely poor maintenance. Namely Syria but Lebanese air force is not known to me. Their AD is very old and not capable of challenging ECM israel has. Syria has gotten a boost from Russia recently which has been a massive help to them.

The israelis go unchallenged because they have a massive tech and tactical advantage but the same tactical use against Pakistan was a very very silly mistake. The use of israeli tactics as you pointed out has failed them because they overestimated their abilities with israeli tech. They thought Pakistan was in stone age in terms of its ECM capabilities, tactical doctrine. The use of Pakistan's Denel Raptor/H4 to strike back with all its assets has give the whole world a shake-up.


well to counter such smart muntion and low level threats that are far more dangerous, the best strategy is to have a Tri-system. We have plenty of AA guns with their purposeful radar for targeting. Its best to have a Tri-system consisting of laser, rocket and guns.

need to tandem a good laser system and a good rocket system like the Denel Cheetah C-RAM that can take out artillery and mortar shell and any other system that flies low or towards the defences like an anti radiation missile for the Skyguard radar. The future of Air-Defence is going to have lasers because they are far more accurate and if applied with AA guns and Rockets.

Dnl95jqUYAAnpkZ.jpg


I am a massive fan of the Tor system it would be nice to see it in deployment in Syria to take on israeli strikes. The problem is the Pantsir unfortunately was handed to Syrians who were far to relaxed in their work and once a vehicle has spent its ammo it needs to be reloaded. They caught one that had spent its ammo, the crew were just chilling. maybe they didn't have the reloads available who knows but we all saw it being knocked out.

At least with Pakistan's AD we know they are pro's at their work however vulnerabilities need to be addressed.


indeed, the shock was when military heads from western nations called COAS. They for some reason purchased indian strength philosophy. thanks to indians selling their overconfidence and masochism as the hoods in the region was deflated.

I pointed out Tor-2E because the system can track and engage targets while being on the move this type of system is very hard to evade and counter. Pantsir S-1 lost one battery in Syria but the war profile in Syria has evidently shown many intercepts by the system. We already have LY-80 but in the 15-km domain we need the Russian systems. I dont know how capable is our FM-90 system but short range and cheap to operate AA capablities are the new dynamics to south asian region and we also need to improve our air defence doctrine from aerial interception ground fire because CAP sorties are expensive to do.

Any capable system within Tor-2E or Pantsir S-1 class is our current requirement.
 

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