Babur 3 only a Stop-Gap, Pakistan needs real SLBM

[amardeep mishra]

Don't mean to interfere but nose cap on K-15 is to turn and stabilize the missile if it leaves the water at an angle.
K-15 don't have thrust vectoring as every other SLBM has. So it needs a, nose cap with rocket motors giving short burst of thrust to upright the missile.
It's a botched up old tech and most probably will be skipped for K-4

Hi dear @Shaheen Missile
That is again a wrong proposition. The nose cap on K-15 is not to "turn" and "stabilize" the missile. Also K-15 does have thrust vectoring in the form of rocket nozzle being mounted on a sensitive servomechanism just like India's other long range missiles like Agni(3,4,5). For stabilization there are tails fins and wings(mounted towards the rear of the missile). For pitch and yaw control it is through flex nozzles utilizing servomechanism(something none of the pakistani strategic missiles posses at the moment--In case you're in doubt you're free to consult members who have some degree of knowledge of pakistani missiles like @The Deterrent ).
And yes K-4 most likely has a nose mounted gas generator.

 

[Safriz]

Hi dear @Shaheen Missile
That is again a wrong proposition. The nose cap on K-15 is not to "turn" and "stabilize" the missile. Also K-15 does have thrust vectoring in the form of rocket nozzle being mounted on a sensitive servomechanism just like India's other long range missiles like Agni(3,4,5). For stabilization there are tails fins and wings(mounted towards the rear of the missile). For pitch and yaw control it is through flex nozzles utilizing servomechanism(something none of the pakistani strategic missiles posses at the moment--In case you're in doubt you're free to consult members who have some degree of knowledge of pakistani missiles like @The Deterrent ).
And yes K-4 most likely has a nose mounted gas generator.

So you are saying that the booster which fires up after missile leaves water has thrust vectoring? Highly unlikely for a booster.
Also check again, the nose cap on K-15 only fires up after the, missile has left the water. It does not generate any gas underwater.
Check Brahmos launch. As booster is firing the nose cap little rockets turn the missile. Then nose cap gets ejected.
Similar arrangements is used on K-15 minus any air intake which is absent on K-15 as it's solid fueled

 

[BHarwana]

Hi dear @Shaheen Missile
That is again a wrong proposition. The nose cap on K-15 is not to "turn" and "stabilize" the missile. Also K-15 does have thrust vectoring in the form of rocket nozzle being mounted on a sensitive servomechanism just like India's other long range missiles like Agni(3,4,5). For stabilization there are tails fins and wings(mounted towards the rear of the missile). For pitch and yaw control it is through flex nozzles utilizing servomechanism(something none of the pakistani strategic missiles posses at the moment--In case you're in doubt you're free to consult members who have some degree of knowledge of pakistani missiles like @The Deterrent ).
And yes K-4 most likely has a nose mounted gas generator.

Here it is being lifted straight up

here it is being taken out of missiles way
this is still booster stage. the cap is protecting air intakes this is based on ramjet

Now observe the video after the booster separation. the exhaust of the missile is not rocket fuel. the exhaust is of a ramjet engine

 

[amardeep mishra]

So you are saying that the booster which fires up after missile leaves water has thrust vectoring? Highly unlikely for a booster.

I did not claim such a thing for the booster.I was talking about the main rocket that fires when the booster has been separated by pyro-bolts. Of course to provide pitch and yaw during the time booster is still intact,tail fins are actuated. But I highly doubt if K-15 doesnt employ flex nozzles just like A-3,4,5.
Dont confuse with Brahmos man! In the case of brahmos,the nose mounted thrusters provide pitch and yaw control once the missile has been cleared off water. In the case of K-15 nose cap is present just to provide favourable hydrodynamics and not to protect the air intake or to provide any degree of pitch/yaw control.Also the firing sequence of thrusters in K15 and brahmos are entirely different. K15 doesnt have any nose mounted pitch/yaw control-period!

 

[BHarwana]

I did not claim such a thing for the booster.I was talking about the main rocket that fires when the booster has been separated by pyro-bolts. Of course to provide pitch and yaw during the time booster is still intact,tail fins are actuated. But I highly doubt if K-15 doesnt employ flex nozzles just like A-3,4,5.
Dont confuse with Brahmos man! In the case of brahmos,the nose mounted thrusters provide pitch and yaw control once the missile has been cleared off water. In the case of K-15 they are just to provide favourable hydrodynamics and not to protect the air intake or to provide any degree of pitch/yaw control.

Please stay with me he is wrong. this is SLBM and no designer will put stabilizer in the nose and destabilize the missile. Only AAM are controlled from the nose for more maneuverability.

 

[Safriz]

I did not claim such a thing for the booster.I was talking about the main rocket that fires when the booster has been separated by pyro-bolts. Of course to provide pitch and yaw during the time booster is still intact,tail fins are actuated. But I highly doubt if K-15 doesnt employ flex nozzles just like A-3,4,5.
Dont confuse with Brahmos man! In the case of brahmos,the nose mounted thrusters provide pitch and yaw control once the missile has been cleared off water. In the case of K-15 they are just to provide favourable hydrodynamics and not to protect the air intake or to provide any degree of pitch/yaw control.

Fins need quite a bit of speed to work. Which isn't there when missile is tossed out of the water. There is, no flex nozzle on booster and cannot be. So how the missile uprights itself same as Trident or any other SLBM does with flex nozzle.
It needs the cap for that purpose, not to cover any air intake as there isn't any

 

[amardeep mishra]

Please stay with me he is wrong. this is SLBM and no designer will put stabilizer in the nose and destabilize the missile. Only AAM are controlled from the nose for more maneuverability.

here is the launch video of brahmos from underwater-
https://gfycat.com/ShimmeringExemplaryIvorybilledwoodpecker
And here is a K-15 launch:

And here is a K4 launch:

Compare all of these.I am sure you'd understand the difference! besides K15 does leave atmosphere and hence a air breathing ramjet would simply wont work!

 

[IndoUS]

Ffs... Mate if you think its a ramjet then can you point to the air intake?

 

[amardeep mishra]

Fins need quite a bit of speed to work. Which isn't there when missile is tossed out of the water. There is, no flex nozzle on booster and cannot be.

How many times do I need to repeat the same thing over and over again?Who told you that booster has flex nozzles? Also No!! Fins do work with the kind of speed imparted by booster--in case you're in doubt watch the videos of nirbhays taking a turn when launched(especially when the booster is still attached)-- this is possible only when tail fins are actuated.

 

[Safriz]

How many times do I need to repeat the same thing over and over again?Who told you that booster has flex nozzles? Also No!! Fins do work with the kind of speed imparted by booster--in case you're in doubt watch the videos of nirbhays taking a turn when launched(especially when the booster is still attached)-- this is possible only when tail fins are actuated.

Er..... Nirbhay flight mode, weight to fin size ratio are quite different from K-15.
Anyway I an not arguing with you anymore as you are getting worked up. Bye

 

[BHarwana]

Ffs... Mate if you think its a ramjet then can you point to the air intake?

Post a close up image I will tell you where they are?

 

[IndoUS]

Post a close up image I will tell you where they are?

Here is shourya land version from which K15 was derived from let me know the air inlet

 

[amardeep mishra]

Er..... Nirbhay flight mode, weight to fin size ratio are quite different from K-15.
Anyway I an not arguing with you anymore as you are getting worked up. Bye

I am not getting worked up man! I am merely trying to establish something that is true. Are you talking about the volume ratio of the control surface in both the cases(St*lt/Sc)? As I have told you my friend,look,K-15 DO NOT have any sort of thrust control mounted on the nose! Also the reason why brahmos has a nose mounted pitch/yaw control is simply because it is meant to fly a particular profile--low-high-low etc Whereas K15 does go up quite a bit--it actually touches and moves beyond the fringes of our atmosphere!

 

[BHarwana]

Here is shourya land version from which K15 was derived from let me know the air inlet

Sorry I cannot locate intakes in this Image but still that does not proves any thing neither from my side nor from yours as no image is available. If there are in takes that are in the nose cone.

 

[MilSpec]

If it has two solid state rockets then why it uses a detach able nose cap. That comes of when the missile enters air from water. What is that cap protecting?


Are you stupid Ramjet is a type of jet engine
Now if K15 is not ramjet why is there a heavy nose cap on the missile which ejects when that missile comes out of water. That cap is there to protect some thing and that something is the intakes of ramjet engine. Why place a heavy cap on the missile and design an entire system to take it off in air. Answer this question all you two are doing is giving info about K15 but not answering the question. I can read the info you two are providing my self on the internet. You people don't know a thing about the rockets just bunch of noobs.

you two defenders of K15 don't know a thing about that nose cap and why that is placed on top of the missile. Please don't act noob, you don't know who you are talking to or what my understanding is but from your answer you two have just the knowledge available on the internet.

Wow, you are dumber than I thought.
Ramjet is indeed a type of engine, and thus i gave you the disambiguation of moniker the term "jet engine" is referred to in the English language, but I bet that was a bouncer.

The nose cap that you keep referring to is to hermetically seal the missile in the canister launchers. After canister ejection the cap is released with retro-boosters to get aerodynamic optimization. K4 too uses the same sealing mechanism. There is a vector motor on the side of the body, which gives the missile the rotational movement around its axis when the missile descends from its horizontal flight path. This rotation is necessary since the lower part of the missile nose cone is exposed to maximum air drag, and rotation dissipates some of the heat from the heat shield

Thanks for the entertainment though!