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Army's Role in Pakistan's politics

mumtazapiracha

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The new Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Kiyani has raised his stature in the eyes of the nation by declaring in his public statements that the Army will not be involved in politics and will only play its constitutional role to defend the country against external and internal threat to its security. He has reportedly issued directive to recall serving army personnel from the civilian positions and to disallow senior military officers from meeting the politicians as well as the president of Pakistan without his prior permission. He also refused to allow the army to supervise the general elections beyond maintaining law and order on government's request. So far so good.

On the other side, the COAS has reiterated army's commitment to support the U.S. War on Terror in the NWFP. It seems to be a bit conflicting with the army's determination to remain out of politics.

The War on Terror is multi-faceted. We have militants fighting with the armed forces in Waziristan and Swat Valley. As far as Waziristan is concerned, the general perception among the public in Pakistan is that there is practically no insurgency there. As the story goes, there are few militants or Jihadis of foreign as well as Afghan origin who fought in the Afghan War or Jihad and later crossed into the tribal belt after finding it difficult to live in Afghanistan. These men were not involved in carryingout terrorist activities. The U.S. initiative to arrest or eliminate them and the determination of the tribal men to resist the U.S. attempts and later that of Pakistan's army, too, made the situation worse.

Probably, the US feared that the Jihadis, though small in number, might progressively become a big force to fight against the U.S. as they did against the Soviet Union. It was probably more of an assumption or foresight rather than an actual happening. The U.S. and Pak Army indulgence has created a negative impact on most of the people in other parts of the country. The best solution at the moment appears to be reconciliation rather than military action in the NWFP. The reconciliation should ensure non-militant or non-terrorist activities in the affected territories.

The government operation in the Lal Masjid and the killing of estimated 1100 plus men and women and children who were residing inside as students added fuel to the fire. Most of the students belonged to the NWFP. It is assumed that the suicidal attacks on military personnel and property in the various parts of the country are partly linked to the killings of students in the Lal Masjid operation as well as the military operations in the NWFP.

Then there are various small or sprinter groups of Jihadis known for their involvement in Jihad in Afghanistan and elsewhere. These groups are reportedly recruiting, training and utilizing young men for attacking law enforcement agencies and the military personnel and property in support of the militants in the NWFP and the killings in the Lal Masjid operation.

The young recruits are those who are otherwise disillusioned, disheartened and dismayed with the living conditions in their home villages. Lack of social justice is the key to their revolt against the establishment. Desperate to gid rid of the government in power, they resort to suicidal attacks and other militant activities. It is generally believed that the economic development, equitable distribution of wealth, provision of basic necessitaties of life etc. in the affected areas would lead to social and economic justice and reduce temptation on the part of the youth to indulge in militancy.

So long as the army remains engaged in war on terror, it cannot possibly keep itself out of politics. Army operations and politics are inter-linked.
 
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THE problum , isnt going to solve . i guss , if we take out ARMY from politics ! there will be no limits and no checks for politicians of thier wrong doings and thier crrouption,,, there is no other force or institution in pakistan which can stop all this
GEN. kiyani seems to looking for cool service, of his service time and not looking for trouble , he is looking to his own job rather than backing MUSHARAF! which is worring for the people of pakistan , insted they are looking afriad from the aims of croupt politicians of there country.
 
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The Army is not there for that role. It is the role of the judiciary. The fact is that the frequent interruptions by the armed forces has caused irreparable damage to the political process. The problem in any nascent democratic process is the quality of leadership. Because choices are limited, the quality of leadership is poor. There could be exceptions to the rule like Mr Jinnah, but in general, it is the rule that the initial start of a process is frought with problems and difficulties. As one progresses and perseveres with the systems, the difficulties are ironed out and the riff raff is sifted out of the system and proper leadership emerges. As institutions grow and gain confidence, the processes to eliminate irregularities are reinforced and eventually the government is strengthened. Imagine 60 yrs of this proccess and where we would have been. The Armed forces by interrupting this process have allowed the same incompetant faces to return to the fore front and loot the country again and again without resolving any of its problems. this in my views has caused more harm than done good. The other addage " The army stepped in to avert public funds being looted" does not hold any ground either as the Army is also from amongst the people and is as corrupt as the rest of Pakistan. Also the Army has never taken the politicians to task to prevent them from coming back.
araz
 
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The Army is not there for that role. It is the role of the judiciary. The fact is that the frequent interruptions by the armed forces has caused irreparable damage to the political process. The problem in any nascent democratic process is the quality of leadership. Because choices are limited, the quality of leadership is poor. There could be exceptions to the rule like Mr Jinnah, but in general, it is the rule that the initial start of a process is frought with problems and difficulties. As one progresses and perseveres with the systems, the difficulties are ironed out and the riff raff is sifted out of the system and proper leadership emerges. As institutions grow and gain confidence, the processes to eliminate irregularities are reinforced and eventually the government is strengthened. Imagine 60 yrs of this proccess and where we would have been. The Armed forces by interrupting this process have allowed the same incompetant faces to return to the fore front and loot the country again and again without resolving any of its problems. this in my views has caused more harm than done good. The other addage " The army stepped in to avert public funds being looted" does not hold any ground either as the Army is also from amongst the people and is as corrupt as the rest of Pakistan. Also the Army has never taken the politicians to task to prevent them from coming back.
araz

I honestly reject your claim. I think that the Armed Forces only stepped in because our politicians were not worthy of running the country. Every time the Armed Forces have stepped in to take control they have had a legitimate reason for doing so and we cant forget that the people of Pakistan favored that step. Let's just break down why the Army took over and its reasons:
Field Marshall Muhammad Ayub Khan- He was the first General of the Pakistan Army to take over the government. I think out of all the Generals the Pakistan Army has had he was probably one of its best. Field Marshall Ayub Khan wanted to keep the Armed Forces as far away from politics as possible. It must be noted that he didn't take power he was handed power by President Iskandar Mirza. It must also be noted that their was also a previous occassion when he was offered power but refused because he believed that the Armed Forces should stay out of politics but when the situation came that he needed to step in he did. It must also be said that before he took power their was a coup attempt in 1951 by some Generals against the government of Laiquat Ali, and it was later found that General Ayub Khan was not behind this act and he personally was involved in the trail to convict the accused. Another incident which must be noted is that the politicians have always asked to Army to step in. For example Major General Iskandar Mirza, while serving in the Army was asked to be Governor of East Bengal and also in 1955 General Ayub Khan was asked to serve a Defence Minister, so as you can see our politicians want the Army involed. Before he came to power we had had numerous goervenment each of them lasting only a few months, we had a Constitution which was so complicated that our people could not understand it. When He came to power during the first years of his rule Pakistan saw real developments, we had peace, the prices of food was down and the most important was that the people supported this move.
General Yayha Khan- When he came to power, it must be noted that it was handed to him by Field Marshall Ayub Khan. When he came in the people supported the move because they wanted change and that is what they got. He gave the country the most free and fair elections in our history. But when it came time for the politicians to take over they couldn't handle it and it end up costing us half the country.
Genral Zia-ul-Haq- It must be noted when he took over power that we had just gone thorugh one of the most rigged elections in our history, and might I add they were conducted by a civilian government. When he came in majority of the people support him.
General Pervez Musharraf- Now like Field Marshall Ayub Khan General Musharraf also had the biggest charge sheet against the previous government. We had 4 governments in a matter of 10 years and all of them ended up being removed on corruption charges. The economy was going down the drain and chaos was everywhere. Now Nawaz Sharif the previous government was involved in the physical attack on the Supreme Court Justices, had just forced General Karamat to resign and caused us the loss at Kargil. The final nail on the coffin of his government came when he dismissed General Musharraf and told the plane he was on to go somewhere else. Isn't is amazing that this is how our politicians treat our forces.
So as anyone can see it is not the Armed Forces at fault but the fault of our politicians. If our politicians think they deserve to rule they must not give the Armed Forces a reason to step in. Now lets look at the current situation with politics. Real democracy has come back to Pakistan and along with it the bickering of politicians. We have calls once again from our politicians asking General Kiyani to take over and when he does they will complain that he is a dictator.
 
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Well soldiers are sworn to the defence of the country and in Pakistans case that means sometimes from itself.
 
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Well soldiers are sworn to the defence of the country and in Pakistans case that means sometimes from itself.

Yes you got the point. Soldiers are sworn to protect the country from destruction. Many criticize the Army for violating the Constitution, but I ask these people what good is the Constitution if their is no country left.
 
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I rather the Patriotic Army run the country, rather these corrupt & immoral feudals & mafia dons businessmen tycoons!

The army is the only loyal-to-country institution of Pakistan. Nawaz tried to break this only disciplined institution, by fighting with 4 Army Generals. He fought with General Kakar (over Ishaq khan), General Asif (over operation cleanup), General Jehangir karamat (over NSC) and Musharraf (by nominating a ISI Ziauddin Butt as COAS). The army re-acted.

Nawaz fought with 2 Presidents i.e Ishaq khan and Leghari.

Nawaz fought with Supreme court CJP i.e Sajjad Shah when he appointed acting Ajmal Mian over Sajjad Shah. He formed 10 member bench against Sajjad Shah's 3 member SC bench.

Nawaz fought with public when he froze their $10 billion reserves.

If the army was not there..... who would have checked this all non-sense???

Judiciary..... it is considered as the most CORRUPT institution according to Transparency International. CPI ranks Judiciary, Police and Parliament as the MOST CORRUPT institutions of Pakistan! Recent Judicial Activism paid by Nawaz Sharif confirms their SOLD_OUT attitute!
 
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Yes you got the point. Soldiers are sworn to protect the country from destruction. Many criticize the Army for violating the Constitution, but I ask these people what good is the Constitution if their is no country left.

I agree!

Also many don't know that the Army is not answerable under the constitution and nor are the Martial laws, Martial law administrators nor militray tribunals. The army martial laws and leaders are provided complete IMMUNITY and PROTECTION under our constitution, which i support! No court of law can act against our Army:

The army acts under the The Pakistan Army Act, 1952, Pakistan Air Force Act 1953 and Pakistan Navy Ordinance act 1961.The provisions of this Ordinance shall have effect notwithstanding anything contained in any other law for the time being in force.

The Constitution (Amendment) Order, 1980, (P.O.No.1 of 1980) section 2 (with effect from May 26, 1980) inserted clauses (3A), (3B) and (3C) which read:

(3A) Notwithstanding any judgment of any Court, including any judgment in respect of the powers of Courts relating to judicial review, a High Court shall not, under this Article:-

(a) make an order relating to the validity or effect of,any Martial Law Regulation made by the Chief Martial Law Administrator or any Martial Law Order made by the Chief Martial Law Administrator or a Martial Law Administrator or of anything done, or intended to be done or taken, thereunder;

(b) make an order relating to the validity or effect of any judgment or sentence passed by a Military Court or Tribunal;

(c) grant an injunction, make any order or entertain any proceedings in respect of any matter to which the jurisdiction of a Military Court or Tribunal extends and of which cognizance has been taken by a Military Court or Tribunal; or

(d) issue any process against the Chief Martial Law Administrator or a Martial Law Administrator or any person acting under the authority of either.

3C) The Proclamation of the fifth day of July 1977, all President's Orders, Orders of the Chief Martial Law Administrator, Martial Law Regulations and Martial Law Orders made on or after the fifth day of July 1977, are hereby declared, notwithstanding any judgment of any Court, to have been validly made."

179. Substituted by the Constitution (First Amendment) Act, 1974 (33 of 1974) section 9 (with effect from May 4, 1974) for:

"(3) An order shall not be made under clause (1) on application made by or in relation to a member of the Armed Forces of Pakistan in respect of his terms and conditions of service, in respect of any matter arising out of his service or in respect of any action taken in relation to him as a member of the Armed Forces of Pakistan."
 
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i think it's best to have some way to covertly monitor candidates for govt. positions. if person is not fit to run or doesn't have the "right ideas", the state intelligence should find some way of barring him from running in any sort of election, hence a tightly controlled system.

we just can't risk having reckless politicians anymore. we've had the likes of Mujibur Rahman who broke the country for his own ends. We also have the current corrupt politicians who became heroes overnight and ruined the image of our armed forces, the image that was the pride of this nation.
 
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a civil-military govt. like Jana suggested a little while ago could end this problem once and for all. anyone have any better suggestions on how we could keep control of our govt. without having the army interfere?

I don't think the public is going to digest the army interfering anymore, now that we have free media operating on the payroll of foreign hands. i would also like to note that i'm actually not against the army interfering, but rather i'm for protecting the army's image.
 
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The President should be retired Army General nominted by GHQ.... and PM elected through elections. I also advocate National Security Council (NSC).
 
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The President should be retired Army General nominted by GHQ.... and PM elected through elections. I also advocate National Security Council (NSC).

I think the President should be elected through a direct vote and the Prime Minister, elected by Parliament like it is being done.
 
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Ithink the president should be the retired supreme court head, the Judiciary shuld be an integral part of the establishemnet and the police should be under the control of judiciary.What do you guys think about this idea?
Araz
 
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Ithink the president should be the retired supreme court head, the Judiciary shuld be an integral part of the establishemnet and the police should be under the control of judiciary.What do you guys think about this idea?
Araz

As far as the President is concerned I have already expressed my opinion on the matter. Now in my opinion the police being an independent pillar of the state is more important then the judiciary being independent. The reason being every government in Pakistan no matter who it may be has used the police for their own political gains against their opponents. With the new government comming into power all the top police officers have been retired and new ones are comming. The appointments aren't being made based on merit but based on political loyalties.
 
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Ithink the president should be the retired supreme court head, the Judiciary shuld be an integral part of the establishemnet and the police should be under the control of judiciary.What do you guys think about this idea?
Araz

I think we should choose the LEAST corrupt institution, more professional and more loyal-to-country:

According to Transparency International:

Graph 1: Sectors and institutions most affected by corruption
(1 - not at all corrupt ... 5 - extremely corrupt)

Religious bodies (mosque) 2.6
NGOs 2.8
Registry and permit services 2.9
Military 2.9
Education system 3.0
Utilities 3.0
Medical services 3.2
Media 3.2
Customs 3.3
Tax revenue 3.4
Business/Private sector 3.4
Legal system/Judiciary 3.5
Police 3.6
Parliament/Legislature 3.7
Political parties 4.0

We ALREADY have the other 3 most corrupt i.e Police, Political parties & Parliament.... let's choose the 4th which is LESS corrupt i.e Military!
 
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