Arjun the worst tank ever

[AZ1]

Indian would be like
Karan ke beghair arjun adhora hai.

We must make another tank and name it karan lol

 

[Joe Shearer]

Good enough for the logic on display.

 

[Beast]

He mentioned requirements for a diesel engine to operate at high altitude, and mentioned that Russian tank engines did not have these capabilities. At the same time, after carefully reading the specifications for the Chinese light tank, I saw nothing there that indicated that these features were present in those engines.

As you probably already know, he is a fauji retired on medical grounds, and is very acerbic in his remarks.

No remarks on cooperation with other arms, but if you jog him, depending on if he is in a good temper, he may answer.

Which website of specification for Chinese light tank did you read about it? India website? lol.

CCTV official Chinese interview has mention this light tank from engine to designed are specifically design for high attitude battlefield. The 1000hp engine is more than enough to leave other type of tanks operating on high land in dust. I guess Indian are just love to be selective. Would not be surprised Indian start to claim their economy is bigger than China now becos India wesbite or expert say so.

 

[LeGenD]

Thread moved to appropriate section.

 

[Dustom999]

He mentioned requirements for a diesel engine to operate at high altitude, and mentioned that Russian tank engines did not have these capabilities. At the same time, after carefully reading the specifications for the Chinese light tank, I saw nothing there that indicated that these features were present in those engines.

As you probably already know, he is a fauji retired on medical grounds, and is very acerbic in his remarks.

No remarks on cooperation with other arms, but if you jog him, depending on if he is in a good temper, he may answer.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/chi...ecifications_pictures_video_11711164.amp.html

Most of Chinese reporting clearly mentioned Electronic control for the newer engine used in this light tank. Will I believe Chinese narrative, usually not, but given that it is a newly developed engine, it most likely would have complete electronic control for Fuel injection and Engine management. It would be a surprise if someone made an engine these days and made it without electronic control. It is quite possibly and highly likely that making old gen mechanical control engine these days will be more expensive than using currently available technology of sensors and air intake computers ( ECU/ECM)
Most of the cost in setting up engine manufacturing facility goes into Casting, Forging and machining facilities not into electronic package.
Is it possible to convert old mechanical control diesel engines to Electronic control? It is quite possible and most Indian manufacturers have done exactly that. Mahindra converted old 4 pot DI engines into ecu control engines and continued its use in bolero and Scorpio. Tata also dis the same with Old Indica engine,They largely did it for pollution norms. However this way, although you can reduce emissions , you do not get full benefits of electronic control - Power and torque improvements.
Just a decade or so back a 2000cc diesel made somewhere between 50-70 hp, then Fiat engined maruti came with 1300cc making 75 hp which was further improved to 90bhp subsequently. Although high pressure injection was done in 80ies era for cars pioneered by Mercedes and Audi and much before that for military application, Robert Bosch gmbh and Magneti Marrelli offered practical and reliable Electronic control package in 90s. Diesel engines just took off from there.
Lately even further improvements have been done to these subsystems, it is quite common to have 4000bar high pressure common rail in mod segment cars now a days. Older gen pressure rails had around 2000bar pressure.
High pressure injection pumps have become smaller,cheaper and more reliable. Imagine 4000 bars (4000 times the atmosphere pressure)of injection pressure, that kind of pressure will make a sub millimeter hole right through you hand should you direct the injector output on your hand.
As Diesel is not a very volatile fuel like gasoline, it needs to be atomised as finely as possible to increase surface area so that it converts its state from liquid to vapour. High pressure injection does exactly that. Convert diesel into such fine droplets that they instantly vaporise when mixed with air.
This has resulted in 3 major gains :-
1. ease of starting. Even in low temperatures, earlier diesel engines had glow plugs to heat diesel to a high temperature before you could crank the engine, else engine wouldn't start or have troubles starting.
2. Increment in power/torque rating, Efficiency (miles per gallon), Efficiency (Thermal). Now a days 2000cc diesel engines make 170-200 Bhp even while meeting Euro6/Bs6 norms. While mass produced petrol engines make much lesser than that.
3.lesser ( almost negligible) carbo soot buildup over time.

So, there goes the lesson in Diesel engine. Some other time for exactly how does sensors and electronics help achieve all this.

Although for a military perspective, engine and power/weight is only a small part of equation.
If this light tank falls in range of any MBT, it will be blown to bits on the very first hit, Cons of having a light tank armour at present technology level. While the Other full armoured MBT is very very likely to survive the first hit from this light tank. This type 15 better use its better power/weight intelligently for any chance in battle although it clearly has an advance on engine front.

 

[Imran Khan]

That is not correct. It proved to be easier to move through desert sand than the T72, that was to become the T90. When they investigated, they found that the Arjun weighed less per square foot of pressure on the ground than the T72, because of the distribution of the tracks and the weight of the tank on the tracks.

indian army was send that reports sir
MoD calls for probe into Arjun tank failure
Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh said on Thursday that the inquiry would examine all possible reasons behind the tardy performance. The two tanks that were undergoing accelerated user trials by the army suffered engine failures on four separate occasions.
Raising this point after an Army report slammed the "poor performance" of the Arjun during the recent round of winter trials, the minister underlined that there were no previous instances of engine failure when the tank was tested for thousands of kilometers in the Thar desert.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/mod-calls-for-probe-into-arjun-tank-failure/301315/

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which website of specification for Chinese light tank did you read about it? India website? lol.

CCTV official Chinese interview has mention this light tank from engine to designed are specifically design for high attitude battlefield. The 1000hp engine is more than enough to leave other type of tanks operating on high land in dust. I guess Indian are just love to be selective. Would not be surprised Indian start to claim their economy is bigger than China now becos India wesbite or expert say so.

No, not from an Indian web-site.

If you look at my posts instead of trying to score cheap points to impress other Chinese members or your captive cheer-leaders, you will find - you will have found if you look back at them in the past as well - that I never quote Indian sources when arguing a case against either Pakistani members or against Chinese members.

You mention an official Chinese interview, and that it says that the light tank was specifically designed for high altitude battlefield. You also mentioned a 1000 HP engine that will leave other types of tanks operating on high land in dust (sic).

What does that mean? What specific qualities equip it for better high altitude performance? If you knew, you would have cited it, right? And if a 1000 HP engine is good, then a 1500 HP engine is better, perhaps.

I have not the slightest interest in whether or not you are surprised; you are not an expert on anything except representing the Chinese point of view on internet fora.

Does that explain why it is extremely difficult to summon up any interest in wasting time repeating arguments that were argued out in full perhaps more than a month ago?

Have you watched "Ground Hog Day"? If not, please watch it and then answer my post.

 

[Figaro]

No, not from an Indian web-site.

If you look at my posts instead of trying to score cheap points to impress other Chinese members or your captive cheer-leaders, you will find - you will have found if you look back at them in the past as well - that I never quote Indian sources when arguing a case against either Pakistani members or against Chinese members.

You mention an official Chinese interview, and that it says that the light tank was specifically designed for high altitude battlefield. You also mentioned a 1000 HP engine that will leave other types of tanks operating on high land in dust (sic).

What does that mean? What specific qualities equip it for better high altitude performance? If you knew, you would have cited it, right? And if a 1000 HP engine is good, then a 1500 HP engine is better, perhaps.

I have not the slightest interest in whether or not you are surprised; you are not an expert on anything except representing the Chinese point of view on internet fora.

Does that explain why it is extremely difficult to summon up any interest in wasting time repeating arguments that were argued out in full perhaps more than a month ago?

Have you watched "Ground Hog Day"? If not, please watch it and then answer my post.

A 33 tonne tank does not need the same engine as a 60 tonne tank ... that is like putting a WS-10/AL-31F on a JF-17.

 

[Joe Shearer]

indian army was send that reports sir
MoD calls for probe into Arjun tank failure
Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh said on Thursday that the inquiry would examine all possible reasons behind the tardy performance. The two tanks that were undergoing accelerated user trials by the army suffered engine failures on four separate occasions.
Raising this point after an Army report slammed the "poor performance" of the Arjun during the recent round of winter trials, the minister underlined that there were no previous instances of engine failure when the tank was tested for thousands of kilometers in the Thar desert.

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/mod-calls-for-probe-into-arjun-tank-failure/301315/

Chacha,

Do you think I am one of those that shoots from the hip and says whatever is the first thing that comes to mind, or do you think I know my subject at least as well as other experts do, and reflect what I have learnt, abbreviated perhaps for the sake of the poor reader?

Do you think I do not know chapter and verse about this incident, and do you think that there are not reasons why I am reluctant to explain the details to people who do not want to know the truth, but only that part of the truth that shows India to be a failed technical state?

Suppose - just for a joke - I were to tell you offline what happened, would you agree to keep it to yourself? Or would you insist, as you are entitled to, that the sorry tale be repeated in public, so that the likes of @PradoTLC get some cheap thrills?

Tell me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

A 33 tonne tank does not need the same engine as a 60 tonne tank ... that is like putting a WS-10/AL-31F on a JF-17.

I will not be dragged back into that older discussion; this and many other points were made, disproved and discarded. "Ground Hog Day".

 

[Figaro]

I will not be dragged back into that older discussion; this and many other points were made, disproved and discarded. "Ground Hog Day".

Please explain why a 33 tonne tank needs a 1500 hp engine found on a 60 tonne tank.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which website of specification for Chinese light tank did you read about it? India website? lol.

CCTV official Chinese interview has mention this light tank from engine to designed are specifically design for high attitude battlefield. The 1000hp engine is more than enough to leave other type of tanks operating on high land in dust. I guess Indian are just love to be selective. Would not be surprised Indian start to claim their economy is bigger than China now becos India wesbite or expert say so.

@Beast

If you have the impertinence to use LOL in your posts addressed to me one more time, you go on my ignore list. It is of no consequence to you, I know, but it is to me. I will not tolerate discourteous behaviour any more.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please explain why a 33 tonne tank needs a 1500 hp engine found on a 60 tonne tank.

Go back and look at the thread for yourself. I am not your unpaid research assistant.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Signalian

#35.

I told you he was good.

@jbgt90

This is the man.

 

[Figaro]

You mention an official Chinese interview, and that it says that the light tank was specifically designed for high altitude battlefield. You also mentioned a 1000 HP engine that will leave other types of tanks operating on high land in dust (sic).

What does that mean? What specific qualities equip it for better high altitude performance? If you knew, you would have cited it, right? And if a 1000 HP engine is good, then a 1500 HP engine is better, perhaps.

Why don't you check out other light tanks for example? The French AMX-30 has a weight of 36 tonnes and only sports a 680 hp engine. I really don't understand your argument here.

Go back and look at the thread for yourself. I am not your unpaid research assistant.

Yet you have failed to provide any convincing argument as to why a 1500 hp engine is needed in a 33 tonne tank.