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Argentina Considering To Purchase 12 JF17C Worth 664Million Dollars

The Argentinian military did hope that J-10C would participate in the bidding at first, but China only provided JF-17. Not only Argentina, but also China refused Sudan's request to buy J-10C.

The J-10C is one of the main fighters in China. Until the two countries have established sufficient trust, China will not sell the J-10C lightly.
Yes China can't trust Argentina so quickly to sell such an important fighter with world most deadly PL series missile.... not only trust but even a mismanagement by Argentina and there is a risk of failing J10 secrets in the hands of UK and ultimately in the hands of USA....
 
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Yes China can't trust Argentina so quickly to sell such an important fighter with world most deadly PL series missile.... not only trust but even a mismanagement by Argentina and there is a risk of failing J10 secrets in the hands of UK and ultimately in the hands of USA....
Even if we are just an enterprise selling cemented carbide products, if you are not a long-term partner, we will not be willing to sell you the highest grade tungsten powder, tungsten rod, etc. There are many problems involved.

Therefore, it is reasonable to start from JF-17.
 
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I know some people would laugh at the suggestion but soybean, beef, and corn are a lot better than cash from a strategic standpoint.
These are much better than the palm oil provided by Malaysia. The Chinese do not eat palm oil.

China can accept beef, corn, soybeans and then pay cash to Pakistan.
 
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There is a chance that we will get the Meteor in the new Rafale deal because old rafales weren't the variant where they can carry Meteor. So we don't know if we already upgraded them to F3R which can carry Meteor. The new deal is either 30 Rafales F3R or F4. Egypt needs to enhanced her aviation capabilities because we need to replace old MIG-21 J-7 Mirage Alpha Jet K-8. Egypt produces locally Alpha Jet K-8, so we need to replace them with a LIFT aircraft that will make our pilots changing swiftly from trainer aircraft to high advanced aircrafts like Rafales Mirage 2K F-16 and MIG-29 (and maybe SU-35, Eurofighter Typhoon or F-15). We made auction or test for which country they give us the best ToT but the quality of the aircrafts. So Pakistan offered JF-17 Thunder, India the HAL Tejas, South Korea lately the FA/T50 aircraft and I think also the MIG-35 or YAK-130. But something happened maybe Pakistan didn't offer the things that we need so Pakistan got "eliminated" from the competition. So now there is advanced talks between us and India and SK. Even the Indian MoD will visit later this month to continue the talks and our air force commander visited HAL facilities (for helicopters and aircrafts.
The question is why you can get ToTs for you but not us. To demand ToT isn't idiotic because you got a lot of assistance from South Africa and China which changed entirely your defense industry.

That is because the people who run your country and it's government
will not allow China to get a foot hold,
Those people, are already fuming at China's ingress into Africa, and how close it is to the Suez Canal.
I doubt SiSi is in any position, but to please the people who have put him there.
Hope you get the drift.

it seems like they (Arabs including Egypt) consider JF17 too low for their standards. they would rather settle for a watered down Western Jet because the external beauty and the brand name is enough to give them a hard on.

Nothing of that,
I have mentioned earlier,
it is about strategy.
Whomsoever provides the jets, gets a diplocatic leverage ( point in case USA, PAkistan, F-16s)

Powers that have installed Sisi, will not allow Egypt any freedom and firmly remain in their sphere.

and if you have seen our establishment lately, just multiply that will 10000 to imagine Egyptian establishment.

Hope you understand.
 
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That is because the people who run your country and it's government
will not allow China to get a foot hold,
Those people, are already fuming at China's ingress into Africa, and how close it is to the Suez Canal.
I doubt SiSi is in any position, but to please the people who have put him there.
Hope you get the drift.



Nothing of that,
I have mentioned earlier,
it is about strategy.
Whomsoever provides the jets, gets a diplocatic leverage ( point in case USA, PAkistan, F-16s)

Powers that have installed Sisi, will not allow Egypt any freedom and firmly remain in their sphere.

and if you have seen our establishment lately, just multiply that will 10000 to imagine Egyptian establishment.

Hope you understand.
@Gomig-21 @The SC That is completly false. China is building a economic zone on the Suez Canal by inviting Chinese companies to set up industries. Plus Egypt is cooperating military with China like for example, the ST-100 MRAP, China will give us attack missile (CM-501GA) and loitering munitions (CM-501XA) (with or without ToT but it would like be with ToT) to be mounted on the MRAP. There is deal that we don't know about it. Here it is about who will give more ToT with a good quality aircraft
 
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@Gomig-21 @The SC That is completly false. China is building a economic zone on the Suez Canal by inviting Chinese companies to set up industries. Plus Egypt is cooperating military with China like for example, the ST-100 MRAP, China will give us attack missile (CM-501GA) and loitering munitions (CM-501XA) (with or without ToT but it would like be with ToT) to be mounted on the MRAP. There is deal that we don't know about it. Here it is about who will give more ToT with a good quality aircraft

Sure,
I presented my claim and I presented by premises.
 
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Argentine Defense budget announced yesterday. It’s been increased significantly to nearly 6 billion. Now they definitely have the money for a new fighter acquisition. As I said before, still literally anyones game between F-16 and JF-17. Other options much less likely but not out of the running yet. Political outcomes will dictate the purchase in the end.
 
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Argentine Defense budget announced yesterday. It’s been increased significantly to nearly 6 billion. Now they definitely have the money for a new fighter acquisition. As I said before, still literally anyones game between F-16 and JF-17. Other options much less likely but not out of the running yet. Political outcomes will dictate the purchase in the end.

They aren't going to pick the F-16 because they already know the British will just make sure they get screwed in the future with spare parts, upgrades, and missile compatibilities. This is like Iran buying Boeing planes.
 
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They aren't going to pick the F-16 because they already know the British will just make sure they get screwed in the future with spare parts, upgrades, and missile compatibilities. This is like Iran buying Boeing planes.
Argentina has less of a say in this matter than people think. I’d argue US is the biggest decider here of what they get, followed by The Brits and Argentinians. So far we’re just assuming US is gonna go with whatever Britain demands, we’re forgetting that they could decide that China is a bigger threat than whatever complaints the Brit’s have about the Argentinians getting a couple of 4th Gen fighters when RN and RAF already have F35s.
 
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Argentina has less of a say in this matter than people think. I’d argue US is the biggest decider here of what they get, followed by The Brits and Argentinians. So far we’re just assuming US is gonna go with whatever Britain demands, we’re forgetting that they could decide that China is a bigger threat than whatever complaints the Brit’s have about the Argentinians getting a couple of 4th Gen fighters when RN and RAF already have F35s.

I don't see how this is going to help. You mean cut a deal like we'll give you a bunch of F-16's real cheap if you don't buy JF-17's..as long as you don't use them against the falklands. People would then be saying the main purpose of the F-16's is to attack the Falklands...what else would they be needed for? Chile?
 
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CONTROVERSIAL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONSHIP

The Argentine government analyzes buying Chinese warplanes
The Casa Rosada is studying proposals from the United States, Russia and India, but the offer from the Asian giant has an advantage. In the 2022 budget, which was never approved, there was a planned item for the purchase of 12 units of JF-17 aircraft.
Bruno Yacon
By Bruno Yacono
September 18, 2022
05:56 a.m.
In August 2020, an Argentine Air Force A-4AR Fightinghawk fighter-bomber crashed south of Córdoba province. Gonzalo Fabián Britos Venturi -one of the best pilots in the squadron- ejected but died and his death reopened the debate on the need to acquire aerial material to renew the country's already outdated fleet of combat aircraft.


Despite the delicate state of the accounts, the Government recognized in the last management report of the Chief of Staff, Juan Manzur , that it analyzes four aircraft offers to incorporate the Argentine Air Force and that the Chinese proposal "meets the requirements" requested .

In fact, in the 2022 budget that was never approved, there was a planned item for the purchase of 12 units of the JF-17 aircraft that China produces jointly with Pakistan. It is the first time that the Ministry of Defense recognizes that it has an interest in this class of units.

The Argentine government analyzes buying Chinese warplanes
From the documentation, which this media analyzed, it appears that the Government is analyzing offers for the aforementioned Chinese JF-17 ; a proposal from the United States for second-hand F-16 A/B aircraft ; a Russian offer for its MIG-35s , which TN had revealed in August 2021 , and a fourth offer from India for its Hal Tejas , a light attack aircraft that has been operating for a few years.

The Chinese option, the most attractive
Sino-Pakistani JF-17 aircraft. (Photo: Aamir QURESHI / AFP)
Sino-Pakistani JF-17 aircraft. (Photo: Aamir QURESHI / AFP)

According to government sources, the one that would seem to have the most advantage is the offer of the JF-17 of Chinese-Pakistani origin . It is a light attack fighter with air-to-air and air-to-surface combat capabilities and a maximum speed of 1.6 mach.

This unit can carry active missiles beyond visual range; short-range infrared missiles; air-sea missiles; laser guided weapons; runway-penetrating and general-purpose bombs and a 23mm double-barreled gun. The information is available on the official site of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

There is an issue that makes these units a viable option for the country. After the Malvinas Islands war, the country suffered a blockade by the English government and cannot acquire weapons with elements from that nation. The Sino-Pakistani JF-18 is entirely designed with elements from the Asian country , including the engines, ejector seat and spare parts.

As explained by the Ministry of Defense of the Nation, these elements "are 90% compatible with the same type of aircraft of other users." Even in the official document presented to the Lower House, Jorge Taiana's portfolio assures: "Regarding the technical evaluation of the JF-17, it is reported that it meets all the requirements established by the FAA for the multi-purpose fighter. -role".


read too
To reequip its forces, the government of Alberto Fernández is analyzing offers for Russian weapons. Credits: Presidency of the Nation.
What weapons is the Argentine government evaluating to buy from Russia?
The F-16 A/B aircraft, the American option
The second offer under consideration came directly from the United States . These are the Lockheed Martin F-16 A/B . They are second-hand units of this single-engine multipurpose attack fighter used in various countries around the world, including Chile and Venezuela.

The unit has an air-to-air and air-to-surface combat capacity and a maximum speed of Mach 2. According to what this medium learned, for this offer to materialize, the United States should negotiate with Great Britain the sale of these units, as they contain British components.


The Argentine government analyzes buying Chinese warplanes
Argentina has a long tradition of arms purchases from the United States. In fact, the last great acquisition of material was the A-4AR Fightinghawk acquired from that country. Previously, dozens of A-4s had been acquired and played a prominent role in the Falklands War.

The F-16 is an aircraft that can operate the AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missile and fire guided bombs.

read too
The training all paid by Russia to the Argentine military
The training all paid by Russia to the Argentine military

The powerful Russian war fighter
The MIG-35 is a modern fighter aircraft designed by Russia. Photo: AFP.
The MIG-35 is a modern fighter aircraft designed by Russia. Photo: AFP.
The third option is the Russian Mig-35 fighter , which has been of interest to the Argentine Air Force for some time. In fact, TN revealed with official documents that the Government asked the Rosoboronexport SA company for technical and commercial information on combat aircraft .

According to technical specifications that can be found on the official Rosoboronexport site , the Mig-35 "is designed to attack air targets in any weather, day or night, and destroy mobile and fixed ground targets." This unit can fly at 1400 km/h at low altitude and 2100 km/h at high altitude.

The Argentine government analyzes buying Chinese warplanes
The aircraft has the ability to carry out air patrol missions, interception and destruction of air targets, as well as strikes against surface (ground) targets. Among its characteristics, air support for troops and aerial reconnaissance stand out.

This option is practically ruled out after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Not only would the trade blockade prevent this operation, but Vladimir Putin's government cannot part with aircraft when the battle is not yet over.

The light fighter offered by India
In the air. The Hal Tejas Indian attack fighter. Photo: AFP.
In the air. The Hal Tejas Indian attack fighter. Photo: AFP.
The fourth option is an Indian plane called the Hal Tejas, a supersonic light fighter that the country is trying to sell to other nations without much success so far.

Official sources assure that it is the one with the least advantage due to technical and financing issues. This supersonic aircraft, which can carry air-to-air missiles, a cannon, bombs and electronic warfare elements, has a maximum speed of 1,960 km/h.

The Argentine government analyzes buying Chinese warplanes
This small plane has a delta wing that provides great agility in the air and maneuverability. On the contrary, its size makes it impossible to carry large amounts of bombs.

For a country like Argentina, not only the technical specifications of these aircraft must be taken into account, but also their maintenance cost and the possibility of transferring technology.

It seeks to recover the supersonic attack capacity
The need to incorporate an attack fighter responds to the fact that the country no longer has supersonic interception capacity. Since the retirement of the Mirage in 2015, the country no longer has aircraft capable of flying at the speed of sound. It is not about a need that responds to war questions, but to control of the air space.

Currently only a handful of five to six A-4AR aircraft are operational. However, this unit, which was acquired in the 1990s during the Carlos Menem administration , is closer to retirement than its glory years.

The Government accepts that it is studying four offers to incorporate fighters into the Air Force. Photo: TN.
The Government accepts that it is studying four offers to incorporate fighters into the Air Force. Photo: TN.
According to official documents accessed by TN , the Argentine Air Force requires that the fighter to be acquired have the following technical specifications

Supersonic multi-role fighter
In-flight refueling capability compatible with refueling aircraft owned by the FAA
Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA)
Tactical Data Link Capability
Electronic self-defense capability
Potential and logistical and temporary projection
No components of British origin
Availability (supply) for the use of weapons
The acquisition of any of these units would come from the National Defense Fund (FONDEF), an initiative deployed during the administration of Agustín Rossi in the Ministry of Defense that aims to reequip the armed forces.

The average value of each plane (unit price):
JF-17: $25,000,000
F-16: between US$15,000,000 and US$20,000,000
HAL TEXAS: $30,000,000
MIG-35: $30,000,000
The estimated cost per hour of flight for each of these aircraft:
JF-17: $7,600
F-16: $10,000
HAL TEXAS: $12,000
MIG-35: $18,000
When purchasing this class of aircraft, not only the unit is purchased, but a much larger package that includes training for pilots, systems, spare parts, engines, different kinds of supports, weapons, among others.


It is based on this package of elements that the authorities consider the Chinese offer as the most attractive, although from the portfolio led by Jorge Taiana they told TN that it has not yet been determined what kind of aircraft will be acquired and that the processes of analysis of the offers presented.
 
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Candidate models include JF-17, F-16, Tejas and MIG-35. The hourly operation cost of each aircraft in the report is: JF-17 is 7600 dollars/hour, F-16 is 10000 dollars/hour, Tejas is 12000 dollars/hour, and MIG-35 is 18000 dollars/hour.

As per this military report from Argentine,
Mig35 is double engine, So its $18000/hour operational cost is understandable but why small Tejas operational cost is $12000/hour? Similarly JF17 hourly cost why so low that too didn't understandable. Can anyone expert shed some technical light?
Are these heavily manipulated figures or their is some truth in it as well?

@siegecrossbow
@MastanKhan
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
@MilSpec
@dbc
@gambit
@Deino
 
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As per this military report from Argentine,
Mig35 is double engine, So its $18000/hour operational cost is understandable but why small Tejas operational cost is $12000/hour? Similarly JF17 hourly cost why so low that too didn't understandable. Can anyone expert shed some technical light?
Are these heavily manipulated figures or their is some truth in it as well?

@siegecrossbow
@MastanKhan
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
@MilSpec
@dbc
@gambit
@Deino
Because Tajas auxiliary trucks also need operational cost.
 
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Argentina has less of a say in this matter than people think. I’d argue US is the biggest decider here of what they get, followed by The Brits and Argentinians. So far we’re just assuming US is gonna go with whatever Britain demands, we’re forgetting that they could decide that China is a bigger threat than whatever complaints the Brit’s have about the Argentinians getting a couple of 4th Gen fighters when RN and RAF already have F35s.
Even US are really to sell. Do you think Argentina will take the bait? They dont want another case of Super Etenard getting screw due to lack of exocet missile becos of deliberate delay by France on the request of UK. Enrol F-16 into the tender is just a method to pressure CATIC to lower the JF-17 price further.

Save your breadth. JF-17 is the only solution for AF.
 
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