Are liberals (reformists & moderates) with the help of the US planning to provoke major instability after the presidential election?

[SalarHaqq]

The basis for this hypothesis is summed up in two videos, which readers are invited to watch.

First video: listen from minute 4 to minute 29.

Second video: listen particularly from minute 6 to minute 50.

Generally speaking, we know from past experience that the liberals have shown themselves to be extremely sore losers at previous elections they failed to succeed in (be it parliamentary or presidential ones). Under such circumstances, liberals have quasi systematically started pointing fingers and crying "fraud". This culminated in the 2009 "Green movement" fitna set in motion by reformist leaders (Mousavi, Khatami, Karoubi) with the backing of Hashemi Rafsanjani, a deplorable episode which compromised the very stability of the state.

Now, we have Rohani indirectly threatening hazrate Agha and the Islamic Republic as a whole, by declaring that if people turn against their government, then the army has to side with the former rather than with the state, i.e. not with the commander-in-chief (in other terms the Supreme Leader) but with protesters. Knowing that this administration has proven capable of triggering unrest and then blaming the revolutionary camp and the IRGC, as it did with its 2019 fuel subsidies reform, which in a suspicious and abnormal manner, was implemented all of a sudden, without informing the public in advance, and thereby naturally pushing lower income groups to protest. After which liberals tried to stir up the people against the IRGC and security forces for taking the required measures to reestablish law and order.

It is in this context that Zarif's baseless and quite irrespectful characterization of shahid Soleimani as having been subservient to Russia (a particular talking point Zarif shares with the exiled opposition and the most caricatural brands of anti-Iran media, like the one which "leaked" his interview), gains a completely different dimension and can thus be scrutinized under a novel light: what if the leak was the work of liberals with Zarif's knowledge after all, their goal however not being to muster support for a Zarif candidacy at the election, but much rather to initiate a creeping campaign to influence public opinion in such a way as to break a taboo by damaging and undercutting the political "sacrality" shahid Soleimani enjoys even among liberal-leaning segments of the population, and thus prepare the grounds for a legitimization of the sordid idea of "Pasdar-koshi" in the minds of that same public?

Another point that has me worried, is the relative silence observed by liberals and their allies in the aftermath of the Guardian Council's vote on presidential candidates. You would have expected them to make a lot more noise, particularly due to Larijani's, and to a lesser extent Jahangiri's disqualification (Tajzadeh, who has had a security-related case running against him at the Judiciary, was a hopeless case). Could this passivity be hiding some bigger plans hatched in the background?

This puzzling stance of domestic liberals is currently echoed by the newly inaugurated Democrat administration in Washington, whose head, Joseph Biden, was being portrayed by Iranian liberals as some sort of a boon. Much like the liberal current in Iran, the US regime is not one to give up without a serious fight. It would be surprising if Washington were to simply sit idle and watch as control over the government changes hands in Tehran and a revolutionary is elected president in late June, much to the detriment of zio-American imperial interests. What such a revolutionary Iranian government would imply for the enemy, Washington already got a hefty taste of in the ongoing Vienna nuclear talks, where the Americans and their EU cronies realized that Iran's Leadership is going to stand firm against a lame duck president, and is categorically going to block the latter's last-ditch attempts to save the JCPoA on its current, unfavorable terms.

Also remember that because of the Rohani administration's abysmal economic and social record, the popularity of the liberal political camp is at an all time low. This plus the Guardian Council's legitimate ruling means that the two validated reformist candidates (Mehralizadeh and Hemmati) have slim chances of getting elected. And liberal masterminds, the Hajjarians and Tajzadehs know this full well. Hence, the only way for them to turn the tables on the revolutionaries at this point in time would be to go all in and risk another major fitna. With the right signals and covert backing from Washington, the fifth column might be tempted to try the unthinkable this time around: namely, to provoke civil war and ruin Iran if they cannot get a swift "regime change" (which they know they can't), while blaming the IRGC and hazrate Agha for the consequences of their own mischievous scheme.

In parallel to all these points, we witnessed in recent months the implementation by Iran's existential foreign enemies of renewed destabilization maneuvers in Iran's border provinces, whether in Sistan-Baluchestan or in Kordestan and Western Azarbaijan, while the social engineering of ethno-separatist deviation in Iranian society has reached intolerable levels. As a reminder, this trend was initiated under the Khatami administration (known to have encouraged the multiplication of print media in local languages, media which instead of striking a patriotic tone quickly revealed themselves as being marred by a decidedly ethno-nationalist and cultural-separatist tone). Ethno-separatist destabilization of Iran has actively been pursued by the zionist and NATO regimes' intelligence agencies. And even though these tendencies are and will always be in the minority among Iranians of various linguistic backgrounds, their nuisance potential is to be taken seriously; in conjunction with other socially destabilizing factors, they turn into outright existential threats for the survival of the Iranian nation.

We also heard the news of smuggled Turkish-made pistols being seized by Iranian border guards. Pistols which are of little to no use in a situation of war, but which constitute a weapon of choice for any false-flag saboteur tasked with killing unarmed protesters in order to falsely accuse the security forces.

Other suspicious circumstantial events include the recent power cuts and their timing. As explained by Heshmat Raisi in the second video shared above, power cuts are particularly prone to startle the masses. They also occurred just prior to the 1979 Revolution as a result of mismanagement, and were one of the multiple factors which led to the popular uprising against the shah regime. Could the recent power cuts have been a deliberate act by political saboteurs in preparation for another fitna against the Islamic Republic? Only time will tell.

May Allah s.w.t. grace Islamic Iran with continued political stability and an incidentless governmental transition in the aftermath of the upcoming presidential election.

 

[El Sidd]

What did the moderates do?

It seems only thing that reigns supreme in Iran is paranoia.

Other suspicious circumstantial events include the recent power cuts and their timing. As explained by Heshmat Raisi in the second video shared above, power cuts are particularly prone to startle the masses. They also occurred just prior to the 1979 Revolution as a result of mismanagement, and were one of the multiple factors which triggered the popular uprising against the shah regime. Could the recent power cuts have been a deliberate act by political saboteurs in preparation for another fitna against the Islamic Republic?

That's not a level playing field now is it?

whether in Sistan-Baluchestan

Pakistan has expressed confidence in opening trade corridors with Iran to bring stability in the border region.

 

[Titanium100]

Nothing will happen in Iran both internally and externally for atleast in the next 30+ years.. the revolutionary guards will remain in Iran until then. World status quo won't change until post 2050 and also world hegemony will change entirely due to a major world incident

 

[Lehrasap]

I just hope that liberals succeed in it, even if it is done with the help of West.

Reason is simple, the conservatives are shameless religious Dictators.

If majority of Iranian people decide for liberal Iran, free of religious fanaticism, then these conservatives don't allow it and deem it Halal for them to use every illegal mean to usurp the right of Iranian people, and to impose their religious madness with power.

 

[SalarHaqq]

I just hope that liberals succeed in it, even if it is done with the help of West.

I'm afraid with this comment you are discrediting yourself.

To engage in destabilization with the help of existential enemies whose goal it is to destroy and balkanize one's nation, is an act of treason, no less.

So if this is what liberals are all about, then they will indeed have to be considered as traitors. Several users were seriously challenging this notion here, but what we can now say, is that some of their supporters would apparently be okay with domestic liberal elites pandering to existential foreign foes in order to turn Iran into another Syria. Extremely disappointing reaction.

 

[Chris Logan]

liberalism is infectious and if the Muslim and Hindu world doesnt reform it will be colonized again.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

I just hope that liberals succeed in it, even if it is done with the help of West.

Reason is simple, the conservatives are shameless religious Dictators.

If majority of Iranian people decide for liberal Iran, free of religious fanaticism, then these conservatives don't allow it and deem it Halal for them to use every illegal mean to usurp the right of Iranian people, and to impose their religious madness with power.

Liberalism is a Cancer.

 

[Lehrasap]

I'm afraid with this comment you are discrediting yourself.

To engage in destabilization with the help of existential enemies whose goal it is to destroy and balkanize one's nation, is an act of treason, no less.

So if this is what liberals are all about, then they will indeed have to be considered as traitors. Several users were seriously challenging this notion here, but what we can now say, is that some of their supporters would apparently be okay with domestic liberal elites pandering to existential foreign foes in order to turn Iran into another Syria. Extremely disappointing reaction.

You know, it does not matter any more what conservatives think or not. These retards have already declared all the liberals as Traitors to the country.

And even if we have to consider the Western World as evil, still they are much little Satans than the blood thirsty conservative devils.

Reality is this that these fanatic nuts have armed themselves in Iran, and they have changed the country laws in their favour and thus Liberals have absolutely no chance to kick them out democratically.

Criminal like Shah was an angel as compared to these high level conservative Satans. Armed forces under Shah were not so cruel to open fire upon the protesters, but the armed forces under these conservative Satans will absolutely not hesitate in opening fire upon the protesters and kill every liberal if they can in order to safeguard their dictatorship.

 

[prashantazazel]

Conservatives are violent backward people by definition. They always try to oppress/ lord over the mainstream moderates and elite liberals, despite being smaller in numbers.
Secular heavy handed rule of law is the only way to contain the conservatives. If they are in power despite being a minority, they should be thrown out.

 

[SalarHaqq]

You know, it does not matter any more what conservatives think or not. These retards have already declared all the liberals as Traitors to the country.

And even if we have to consider the Western World as evil, still they are much little Satans than the blood thirsty conservative devils.

Reality is this that these fanatic nuts have armed themselves in Iran, and they have changed the country laws in their favour and thus Liberals have absolutely no chance to kick them out democratically.

Criminal like Shah was an angel as compared to these high level conservative Satans. Armed forces under Shah were not so cruel to open fire upon the protesters, but the armed forces under these conservative Satans will absolutely not hesitate in opening fire upon the protesters and kill every liberal if they can in order to safeguard their dictatorship.

Sorry to say, but owing to the extreme language used ("evil", "conservative satans"), this feels like reading some comment from an MKO type, a L.A. shahi or even a zionist hasbara agitator demonizing Islamic Iran. Only that here the discourse is being pronounced by a reformist supporter.

I am not going to waste too much time on reminding the obvious, namely that whatever its flaws, present day Iran is literally a paradise in comparison not just to vast segments of the west, but specially to her war-torn neighbors such as Iraq and Syria, which were destroyed by the same hostile foreign powers the quoted user advocates striking an alliance with... Mass-murdering criminal hostile powers which have Iran's destruction high on their agenda (after having successively set ablaze Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and brought destruction to Lebanon and Gaza).

The US, Isra"el" and their clients are absolutely guaranteed to grab the opportunity offered by any semblance of consequent domestic instability to turn Iran into a raging inferno a hundred times worse than Syria and Iraq combined, by which time Iranians will be shedding oceans of tears deploring the good old days of the revolutionary-led Islamic Republic, as well as the mounting body count comprising heaps of friends and relatives. By then however, Iran herself will have ceased to exist as a unified nation-state, as a society and as a civilization, and permanent chaos will follow for generations to come. Iran will de facto be erased from history if the Islamic Republic is toppled or even seriously destabilized. This much should be clear to anyone with solid geopolitical insight.

Therefore all Iranian patriots should take note that when out of pure spite for the Islamic Revolution and its principles, reformist supporters advocate to conspire with Iran's existential enemies in order to bring down the system in a nihilistic and self-destructive headlong rush which would make Rohani's short-sightedness look like supreme wisdom, one might well be justified to consider liberal currents in Iran as a potential national security threat of the highest order. One that would ultimately need to be isolated, sidelined and hopefully driven to the margins of the political scene for good.

By now I believe @mohsen ought to have been vindicated, at least to a certain extent, even with the last skeptic.

 

[Lehrasap]

Sorry to say, but owing to the extreme language used ("evil", "conservative satans"), this feels like reading some comment from an MKO type, a L.A. shahi or even a zionist hasbara agitator demonizing Islamic Iran. Only that here the discourse is being pronounced by a reformist supporter.

Problem with conservative religious people is that they are quick to use extreme language against others (like blaming all of them to be traitors of country and to be the agents of West and Mosaad and Zionist Hasbara etc), but when we use the same language in reply, then they start trying to pose themselves as innocents and Mazlooms.

I am not going to waste too much time on reminding the obvious, namely that whatever its flaws, present day Iran is literally a paradise in comparison not just to vast segments of the west, but specially to her war-torn neighbors such as Iraq and Syria, which were destroyed by the same hostile foreign powers the quoted user advocates striking an alliance with... Mass-murdering criminal hostile powers which have Iran's destruction high on their agenda (after having successively set ablaze Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and brought destruction to Lebanon and Gaza).

When have you seen Reformists supporting Western Governments for cases like Iraq, Syria, Yemen? No, we oppose the Western Governments for these crimes, and many Liberal/Secular Western people are also with us on this issue and they criticise their own Governments for this.


But despite that Conservative Fanatics keep on blaming the Iranian liberal reformists to be traitor of Iran and Islam.

It is strange that these same conservative fanatics like the Western Liberals/Secularists (for opposing Israel and their governments regarding issues like Syria and Palestine etc), but they absolutely hate the Iranian liberals/Secularists why they criticise the religious fanatics for same type of Zulm and oppression as Israel does upon the Palestinians by snatching their rights through force.

I just hope people could see these double standards of the religious fanatics.

In fact, these are the religious right wing of US (and western people) who support Israel, while the secularists always try to support the JUSTICE, even if they have to speak against their own government.

Therefore all Iranian patriots should take note that when out of pure spite for the Islamic Revolution and its principles, reformist supporters advocate to conspire with Iran's existential enemies in order to bring down the system in a nihilistic and self-destructive headlong rush which would make Rohani's short-sightedness look like supreme wisdom, one might well be justified to consider liberal currents in Iran as a potential national security threat of the highest order. One that would ultimately need to be isolated, sidelined and hopefully driven to the margins of the political scene for good.

Have you ever tried to ponder upon it, if the Islamic Iran was so right upon Syria and Palestine, why then still MAJORITY of Iranians still oppose them and support the liberals?

Why the religious fanatics are then unable to get the majority support despite being right on every point?

It is due to the reason that religious fanatics are telling the lies to themselves and to the people.

They want to HIDE their CRIMES of DICTATORSHIP behind the external dangers of Israel and US etc, but themselves they are not ready to give the true human rights to their citizens and to respect their opinions. They want to impose their draconian system by force upon the "unarmed" citizens, and they punish the people for protesting against their wrong-doings.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Problem with conservative religious people is that they are quick to use extreme language against others (like blaming all of them to be traitors of country and to be the agents of West and Mosaad and Zionist Hasbara etc), but when we use the same language in reply, then they start trying to pose themselves as innocents and Mazlooms.

It's simple: advocating to conspire with a hostile foreign power (hostile not just to the ruling political system but to the integrity of the Iranian nation-state), is the definition of treason. So adhering to such positions would be the last thing I'd want to do, for it'd be no different from following in the footsteps of the likes of the MKO.

When have you seen Reformists supporting Western Governments for cases like Iraq, Syria, Yemen? No, we oppose the Western Governments for these crimes, and many Liberal/Secular Western people are also with us on this issue and they criticise their own Governments for this.

But advocate to collaborate with those same criminal regimes to forcefully overthrow the Islamic Republic? No consistency in this stance.

But despite that Conservative Fanatics keep on blaming the Iranian liberal reformists to be traitor of Iran and Islam.

I don't think you got the point: collaborating with your nation's existential enemies, i.e. western regimes, is treason. I only cited cases such as Iraq, Syria and Yemen to remind everyone what goals western regimes are pursuing vis a vis Iran. So given their aim is to destroy Iran as a unified nation, to balkanize and uproot the country, in addition to making it plunge into endless instability, any notion of soliciting their aid against domestic political rivals or inviting them to intervene in the country's domestic affairs is treason.

It's not very complicated, actually.

It is strange that these same conservative fanatics like the Western Liberals/Secularists (for opposing Israel and their governments regarding issues like Syria and Palestine etc), but they absolutely hate the Iranian liberals/Secularists why they criticise the religious fanatics for same type of Zulm and oppression as Israel does upon the Palestinians by snatching their rights through force.

First of all the analogy is inaccurate. In Iran, the secularist and/or liberal currents are far more zio-apologetic than those staunchly anti-zionist westerners. Leading reformist (pseudo-)intellectuals and figures such as Sadegh Zibakalam and Mahmud Sariolghalam are on the record for advocating recognition of the illegal zionist occupation regime, normalization of ties with Isra"el", and therefore an end to Iran's support for the Palestinian and Lebanese Resistance!

Sariolghalam toured universities all across Iran to promote these subversive and literally dangerous ideas. Zibakalam for his part published a book on the conflict in Palestine including the 1948 Nakba in which he practically rehashed the official propagandistic version of the zionist regime. He is also known for pulling ridiculous stunts at Iranian universities, where similar to a clown he sneaks around zionist regime flags painted on the ground in order to avoid walking on them.

Don't even get me started about how westernized reformist and moderate political currents in Iran really are. Culturally in the first place, given that their ideological references wholly stem from the west, and how they systematically strive to import western cultural, social and economic models and implant them on the Iranian nation. And then also from the geopolitical standpoint. If you're unaware of the degree to which the outgoing Rohani administration conceived of any and all development as being exclusively dependent on a normalization of ties with a US regime which has no other goal in mind than to destroy Iran, then you've missed one of the main events of the past eight years of Iranian politics and should perhaps start reading up on it.

Last but not least, scores of secularist anti-zionist and anti-imperialist westerners do actually support Islamic Iran, its theocratic nature notwithstanding. Do you know why? Because they have got their priorities right. They know that there is no alternative to the Islamic Republic and that destabilization of Iran would inevitably open her up to utterly destructive intervention by the hostile zionist and NATO regimes. Which in turn would deprive the global anti-Resistance front of its main powerhouse.

Case in point, Heshmat Raisi who appears in the second video I shared in the opening post is not only a secularist, but even a socialist if not a communist. And despite the fact that he has enough criticism for the Islamic Republic, he vehemently opposes any and all Iranian political grouping cooperating with the west against the same Islamic Republic, and when it comes to the Iranian domestic affairs, he clearly sides with the revolutionaries against liberal reformists and moderates! I would recommend that you watch the video prior to engaging in an fruitless exchange.

So let's not try and portray secular-minded or less religious people as necesarily supportive of the reformists in Iran. In fact, the actual patriotic ones, like Heshmat Raisi, like Omid Dana and many others, who refuse to sell their country, are staunchly opposed to these reformists, because they have correctly identified them as a western-apologetic current.

I just hope people could see these double standards of the religious fanatics.

There are no double standards. Because the decisive fault line in Iranian politics today no longer runs between religious and non-religious, nor between Islamist and secularist / secular nationalist, nor between republican and monarchist, etc - it runs between patriots and vatanforush.

Patriots are those who, irregardless of their ideological differences with and grievances towards the Islamic Republic (some of which might be perfectly in order), are politically intelligent enough to realize that a downfall of the IR, or any significant internal destabilization would spell not only the end of the currently ruling political system, but also the end of Iran as a unified and functioning nation-state, while bringing calamities worse than those suffered by Iraq and Syria upon the Iranian nation, because Iran's foes are bent destroying Iran.

Vatanforush however are those who due to their political differences with the Islamic Republic, and due to grievances which might or might not be legitimate, or simply out of financial interest, will choose to work as footsoldiers and henchmen for the Iranian nation's existential foreign enemies.

I'd recommend watching some of Omid Dana's clips on YouTube. He expands upon these aspects pretty well.

At this stage I'm not quite certain if you realize how your own posts in this thread have been heavily self-contradicting. Indeed, in your initial comment, you explicitly and openly legitimize cooperation of reformist forces in Iran with western regimes, that is with existential foreign enemies of the Iranian nation, in order to bring down the current ruling system of the Islamic Republic. Then later on you lament the fact that revolutionaries consider the liberals as a fifth column of the west? Don't you see the contradiction here?

Most importantly though, I hope you will come to realize that any notion of working with Iran's existential foes and thereby aiding them in their agenda to destroy the Iranian nation, is the very definition of treason, motivating you to you revise this faulty position.

Have you ever tried to ponder upon it, if the Islamic Iran was so right upon Syria and Palestine, why then still MAJORITY of Iranians still oppose them and support the liberals?

Why the religious fanatics are then unable to get the majority support despite being right on every point?

Oh I sure have. But I disagree with your notion that the majority of Iranians oppose the IR's policy on Syria and Palestine in the first place.

Please switch off BBC Farsi, Manoto, or domestic liberal media. An independent and academic initiative such as "Iran Poll", conducted by a Canadian research center in conjunction with the University of Maryland, and which has among its clients Princeton University, shows a very different picture than the one propagated by these types of pro-western media. Iran Poll was the only significant non-Iranian source which correctly predicted Mahmud Ahmadinejad's reelection in 2009, by the way.

You should have a look at their latest opinion poll, conducted as usual according to flawless scientific methods: https://www.iranpoll.com/publications/biden

To respond to your question, you are clearly underestimating the considerable impact of western-led propaganda and perfidious social engineering on Iranian public opinion. In fact, the propaganda campaign specifically devised for Iranians by hostile foreign powers, is the most massive and extensive such endeavor in human history. There is no equivalent anywhere and at no other point in time.

As an example, one might simply compare the amounts of posts published on Instagram by the different foreign-language services of the MI6's sophisticated propaganda and psy-ops organ known as BBC: the Farsi service of the BBC not only tops the list, it does so by a factor of 8 or so - meaning that the BBC Farsi account on Instagram churns out 8 times more propaganda than the second most prolific foreign-language account of the BBC. And this includes Chinese and Russian, languages pertaining to two countries far more populous than Iran whom the west considers as rivals if not enemies.

They want to HIDE their CRIMES of DICTATORSHIP behind the external dangers of Israel and US etc, but themselves they are not ready to give the true human rights to their citizens and to respect their opinions. They want to impose their draconian system by force upon the "unarmed" citizens, and they punish the people for protesting against their wrong-doings.

Using caps lock won't make your argument more credible.

And I must counter that you have it decidedly wrong here, starting from your buying into the fallacious alternative religion of "human rights" promoted by regimes which themselves have historically been among the worst violators of rights, all the way to your misrepresentation of Iran as a supposed "dictatorship" when in fact the degree of political pluralism in Iran is far superior to that which prevails in western so-called "democracies" - not least because one of the two main political currents in the country is openly advocating submission to existential enemy states, and striving to operate "regime change" from within, something no western "democracy" would ever tolerate.

 

[Lehrasap]

It's simple: advocating to conspire with a hostile foreign power (hostile not just to the ruling political system but to the integrity of the Iranian nation-state), is the definition of treason.

It is simple, religious fanatics are the ones who initiated this by using the Dictatorship and by putting behind the bars and killing them by labelling traitors and thereby becoming bigger Satans for the Iranian people than any other foreign power.

If you make our blood halal through your dictatorship, tyranny, false accusations, killings, then at the end we will also do anything to destroy you and save our nation from your fitna.

Foreign Powers are not always bad. We just have to stand with the Western Secularists and we will destroy the RW religious nuts of every country.

It were the Foreign Powers who get Iran rid of dictator Sadam. Thus we again have to use the foreign powers wisely and this time get rid of dictator Khamenei and all other Iranian religious fanatic nuts.

... their aid against domestic political rivals or inviting them to intervene in the country's domestic affairs is treason.

No, it is absolutely not a treason in present case.
While Real and Bigger Treason is forming of Dictatorship by Mullahs and usurping the rights of the Iranian people.

It is same as it was not a treason to support Dictator Saddam Hussain against the foreign powers (like what Seestani did). Same is the case with Mullah dictatorship of Iran too and it should be considered the bigger Devil and should be destroyed.

In Iran, the secularist and/or liberal currents are far more zio-apologetic than those staunchly anti-zionist westerners. Leading reformist (pseudo-)intellectuals and figures such as Sadegh Zibakalam and Mahmud Sariolghalam are on the record for advocating recognition of the illegal zionist occupation regime, normalization of ties with Isra"el", and therefore an end to Iran's support for the Palestinian and Lebanese Resistance!

False accusation.
These few names do not make "majority" of Iranian Reformists.
Off course you could not win this argument without making the false accusations.

Culturally in the first place, given that their ideological references wholly stem from the west, and how they systematically strive to import western cultural, social and economic models and implant them on the Iranian nation.

Again totally false accusation by the fanatic religious elements.

Secularists don't Impose anything forcefully, but they give freedom of choice to all to choose their way of life as they wish.

These are only the Mullah Satans who IMPOSE their ideology over the others by using the force and don't give rights to others to choose the way of life that they wish.

Rohani administration conceived of any and all development as being exclusively dependent on a normalization of ties with a US regime which has no other goal in mind than to destroy Iran, then you've missed one of the main events of the past eight years of Iranian politics and should perhaps start reading up on it.

No problem if you consider it a political mistake of Rouhani. You are totally free to make your point in the political arena, and let us see if Iranian people agree with you or not.

But the problem arises when you impose your personal OPIONION upon the whole nation forcefully, and then don't even let the leading Reformists to take part in the elections, or to even let them criticise the evils of the dictatorship of Khamenei and the religious System of Iran.

scores of secularist anti-zionist and anti-imperialist westerners do actually support Islamic Iran, its theocratic nature notwithstanding.

False.
Western Secularists don't support the draconian Dictatorship of Khamenei.
They are absolutely against this religious dictatorship.

What the western Secularists support, is the "Humanity and Justice". If they are against the state of Israel and even against their governments for supporting Israel, then it has nothing to do with the religious dictatorship of Iran, but it has only to do with the humanity and the principles based upon Justice.

They know that there is no alternative to the Islamic Republic and that destabilization of Iran would inevitably open her up to utterly destructive intervention by the hostile zionist and NATO regimes. Which in turn would deprive the global anti-Resistance front of its main powerhouse.

Again false.

Nothing happened to the Western world when Israel took 80% of Palestine. And nothing is going to happen if Israel takes out 100% of Palestine. This so called Resistance was a joke in the past, and still a joke and western world is not threatened by this so called resistance.

The non-Muslim right wing killed millions of Muslims in Rohingya, but this so called Islamic resistance was absent. Same is true with Kashmir. Same is true with China.

Fanatic Muslims are living in a dream land. Western Secularists don't oppose Israel due to the mighty influence of the so called resistance, but they do it as their moral duty in name of humanity.

So let's not try and portray secular-minded or less religious people as necesarily supportive of the reformists in Iran. In fact, the actual patriotic ones, like Heshmat Raisi, like Omid Dana and many others, who refuse to sell their country, are staunchly opposed to these reformists, because they have correctly identified them as a western-apologetic current.

If it is really so, then accept the challenge and let the Reformist take part in the presidential elections and Iranian people will automatically wipe them out if your claims are true.

But you know it yourself that your are only telling lies above, and you have no courage then to stand to your words and accept the challenge in the political arena. No, but you have to play your dirty dictatorship tactics in order to oppress the majority of Iranian people.

There are no double standards. Because the decisive fault line in Iranian politics today no longer runs between religious and non-religious, nor between Islamist and secularist / secular nationalist, nor between republican and monarchist, etc - it runs between patriots and vatanforush.

Off course you are totally false.

Reformists are no Vatanforush. They form the majority of the Iranian People and have the right to introduce the Secular laws and abolish the dictatorship of religious nuts and their oppression.

And there are only blood thirsty religious dictators and the majority of the Iranian people who want to live with Secular ideas.

Oh I sure have. But I disagree with your notion that the majority of Iranians oppose the IR's policy on Syria and Palestine in the first place.

Please don't play the deceptive tactics.
I never said that majority of Reformists oppose the IRs policy upon Syria or Palestine.

No, but we were discussing about the majority of Iranian people who don't want to see the dictatorship of Vali Faqih and want to have more secular and democratic Iran as compared to the present dictatorship of Khamenei.

As an example, one might simply compare the amounts of posts published on Instagram by the different foreign-language services of the MI6's sophisticated propaganda and psy-ops organ known as BBC: the Farsi service of the BBC not only tops the list, it does so by a factor of 8 or so - meaning that the BBC Farsi account on Instagram churns out 8 times more propaganda than the second most prolific foreign-language account of the BBC. And this includes languages such as Chinese and Russian, two far more populous countries than Iran whom the west considers as rivals if not enemies.

Press TV is allowed to publish 100 times more news at their website which is accessible to the Western people.
Iranian Government and Iranian religious nuts are allowed to preach their religion with complete freedom to the western people.

But the other side is not allowed to even utter a single word against the dictatorship of Khamenei or to criticise the religion and religious practices in Iran.

These are the Double Standards of the religious fanatics and must be removed. Worst thing is this that these religious nuts are still unable to see their Double Standards.

not least because one of the two main political currents in the country are openly advocating submission to existential enemy states, and striving to operate "regime change" from within, something no western "democracy" would ever tolerate.

In true democracies neither one becomes a traitor, nor one has to rebel against the dictatorship, nor the foreign power could play any role.

Iranian Reformists are not the traitors for the last 40 years.

You are once again hiding the crimes of the religious dictatorship of Iran behind the lame excuse of reformists being traitors.

 

[SalarHaqq]

It is simple, religious fanatics are the ones who initiated this by using the Dictatorship and by putting behind the bars and killing them by labelling traitors and thereby becoming bigger Satans for the Iranian people than any other foreign power.

Treason is treason. But dictatorship doesn't necessarily equal treason to the nation.

I prefer dictatorship and a stable Iran over selling out to hostile foreign powers and provoking the destruction of Iran.

One needs to choose one's side rationally, not out of spite. Sacrificing the existence of one's country to get rid of a supposed "dictatorship" (which is not actually one) is a contradiction in terms.

Collaborating with existential enemies is also both madness and a lowly act.

As for "putting behind bars" and "killing", you're shifting the discussion to the 2009 fitna now. When certain groups of people try to disrupt the constitutional order under a bogus pretext of electoral "fraud", and destabilize the country driving it to the brink of collapse, then they absolutely need to be dealt with.

If you make our blood halal through your dictatorship, tyranny, false accusations, killings, then at the end we will also do anything to destroy you and save our nation from your fitna.

You still don't get it. If they destabilize Iran, oppositionists aren't going to do anything other than invite the definitive destruction and dismantling of Iran for all eternity. No saving the nation, but actively participating in its annihilation.

Anyone still chanting fallaciously promising "regime change" tunes in 2021 needs a serious reality check, after all the counter-examples witnessed accross the region since 9-11, of "regime changes" resulting in nothing but utter destruction of nation-states and societies.

Foreign Powers are not always bad. We just have to stand with the Western Secularists and we will destroy the RW religious nuts of every country.

The powers I'm talking about have the destruction and ethnic balkanization of Iran high on their agenda. No ifs and buts.

It were the Foreign Powers who get Iran rid of dictator Sadam. Thus we again have to use the foreign powers wisely and this time get rid of dictator Khamenei and all other Iranian religious fanatic nuts.

This is mindlessly delusional.

Iran did not "use" the Americans to get rid of Saddam, they did so on their own.

That Iran was then capable of outsmarting the US in Iraq is precisely because Iran, contrary to Iraq had not been subjected to US-led "regime change" and is therefore still a functioning state. And this feat was achieved by, guess whom, those supposed "evil religious fanatics" at the helm of the Iranian state.

You want to know what Iran will look like if hostile imperialist powers are let in, look no further than Iraq and Syria, multiply the destruction by a hundred and you will get the gist.

No, it is absolutely not a treason in present case.
While Real and Bigger Treason is forming of Dictatorship by Mullahs and usurping the rights of the Iranian people.

Treason is to collaborate with foreign enemies. It is even worse when those enemies have set as their goal the complete dismantling of Iranian society, culture, civilization, state and nation, and are relentless and rabid in pursuit of this aim, empowered by the might of the ruling global hegemon.

I repeat, since you still aren't grasping the central point here: there is no alternative to the Islamic Republic. Should it fall, Iran will fall with it. That's what the geopolitical reality tells us, provided we do not insist on blinding ourselves out of political spite.

It is same as it was not a treason to support Dictator Saddam Hussain against the foreign powers (like what Seestani did). Same is the case with Mullah dictatorship of Iran too and it should be considered the bigger Devil and should be destroyed.

Statements like these are no different from what MKO terrorists used to advocate. No comment.

False accusation.
These few names do not make "majority" of Iranian Reformists.
Off course you could not win this argument without making the false accusations.

This is your counter? These aren't just "few names", these are leading reformist mouthpieces who reflect this current's outlook, else they wouldn't be recognized and endorsed by reformists as opinion leaders.

Quite funny how you'd dismiss Zibakalam and Sariolghalam as unrepresentative or Iranian reformism, yet not only fail at providing any counter-examples of supposed influential "anti-imperialists" in the reformist camp, but in the same breath, you are yourself advocating collaboration with the terrorist US regime to bring the Islamic Republic down.

You're all over the place, permanently shifting your own self-contradicting rhetoric and not even realizing it, apparently.

Again totally false accusation by the fanatic religious elements.

Secularists don't Impose anything forcefully, but they give freedom of choice to all to choose their way of life as they wish.

With such simplistic equations, one will not even manage to scratch the surface of political and social reality.

Secularists are responsible for some of the worst crimes in modern history. From the Vendean genocide consecutive to the French revolution, to the genocide of Native Americans by the secular colonialist US regime, to crimes committed by both sides in WW2, the list is so extensive and well known to all that I can hardly be bothered to dwell on.

Then there is social engineering and sophisticated, non-coercive social control (also called inverted totalitarianism), further concepts you'd gain in familiarizing yourself with. Through mechanisms such as these, political, social, economical models, and even anthropological shifts can be implemented independently of the will of the populations subjected to them.

These are only the Mullah Satans who IMPOSE their ideology over the others by using the force and don't give rights to others to choose the way of life that they wish.

Mere extremist slogans deprived of analytical depth and factual content.

No problem if you consider it a political mistake of Rouhani. You are totally free to make your point in the political arena, and let us see if Iranian people agree with you or not.

But the problem arises when you impose your personal OPIONION upon the whole nation forcefully, and then don't even let the leading Reformists to take part in the elections, or to even let them criticise the evils of the dictatorship of Khamenei and the religious System of Iran.

Incorrect. Two reformist candidates, Mehralizadeh and Hemmati, are running in the upcoming presidential election. In every election held by the Islamic Republic, candidates from various political groupings were allowed to run.

Furthermore, as explained already, political pluralism is far more pronounced in Islamic Iran than in western so-called "democracies", because governing parties in Iran are far more removed from each other in terms of ideology and policies.

False.
Western Secularists don't support the draconian Dictatorship of Khamenei.
They are absolutely against this religious dictatorship.

Are you self-appointing yourself as the spokesperson of western secularists? But no need to look very far, we have several of them right on this message board.

Go ask a socialist - and therefore secularist by default like user Sineva from New Zealand whether he supports violent "regime change" against the so-called "evil religious dictatorship" that is Iran.

What the western Secularists support, is the "Humanity and Justice". If they are against the state of Israel and even against their governments for supporting Israel, then it has nothing to do with the religious dictatorship of Iran, but it has only to do with the humanity and the principles based upon Justice.

These elementary oversimplifications and simplistic circumscriptions are getting tiring. As you keep documenting yourself, you shall learn how infinitely more complicated and ambivalent things are. Social and political realities cannot be subsumed under such grossly restricting labels, nor appreciated in wide-eyed terms.

Again false.

Nothing happened to the Western world when Israel took 80% of Palestine. And nothing is going to happen if Israel takes out 100% of Palestine. This so called Resistance was a joke in the past, and still a joke and western world is not threatened by this so called resistance.

Who talked of something "happening to the western world"?

In case of a complete annexation of Palestinian lands by the zionist regime, Palestinian resistance will continue. If Tel Aviv believed that such a move will offer a viable solution, and if it thought that it could achieve it at a politically affordable price, then it would have proceeded with it long ago.

And of course anti-imperialists and anti-zionists the world over are aware of Iran's central role in empowering the Resistance. Along with fellow independent states such as North Korea, Venezuela and a few more.

The non-Muslim right wing killed millions of Muslims in Rohingya, but this so called Islamic resistance was absent. Same is true with Kashmir. Same is true with China.

Stop switching topics, jeez! We weren't discussing the Islamic cause here, but anti-imperial minded citizens of the west expressing solidarity with Iran due to the latter's heavy contributions to the global Resistance against zionist and NATO imperialism.

You need to try and stay focused instead of switching topics after every third or fourth line, else no discussion will be possible.

Fanatic Muslims are living in a dream land. Western Secularists don't oppose Israel due to the mighty influence of the so called resistance, but they do it as their moral duty in name of humanity.

Aha. Fascinating. But sadly unrelated to what I wrote.

If it is really so, then accept the challenge and let the Reformist take part in the presidential elections and Iranian people will automatically wipe them out if your claims are true.

Newsflash! Two reformist candidates, Mohsen Mehralizadeh and Abdolnasser Hemmati, will be eligible at the 2021 Iranian presidential election. As was the case in every election held under the IR, candidates will hail from various political and ideological horizons.

I mean, if you're going to discuss these issues, make sure to inform yourself adequately on the very basics.

But you know it yourself that your are only telling lies above, and you have no courage then to stand to your words and accept the challenge in the political arena. No, but you have to play your dirty dictatorship tactics in order to oppress the majority of Iranian people.

What in the world are the so-called "dirty dictatorship tactics" I am supposed to have employed in this discussion? This is funny.

In fact, prior to evoking political arenas this and that, it would be nice if the numerous sources I shared could at least be consulted and taken note of, if not countered in kind, rather than simply being ignored. If this had been done, your retorts would have moved away from sloganeering to more fact-based and analytical ones.

Off course you are totally false.

Reformists are no Vatanforush. They form the majority of the Iranian People and have the right to introduce the Secular laws and abolish the dictatorship of religious nuts and their oppression.

And there are only blood thirsty religious dictators and the majority of the Iranian people who want to live with Secular ideas.

This has yet again nothing much to do with what I was getting at.

As for who forms a majority and what their aspirations and priorities are, it's quite easy to make gratuitous statements in this regard, but as long as these aren't substantiated with evidence, they're of little worth.

Please don't play the deceptive tactics.
I never said that majority of Reformists oppose the IRs policy upon Syria or Palestine.

No, but we were discussing about the majority of Iranian people who don't want to see the dictatorship of Vali Faqih and want to have more secular and democratic Iran as compared to the present dictatorship of Khamenei.

In other words, repeating the same thing once again. You could have made it shorter then, by issuing the claim once. I addressed it in length above as well as in my previous post.

Press TV is allowed to publish 100 times more news at their website which is accessible to the Western people.

Iranian Government and Iranian religious nuts are allowed to preach their religion with complete freedom to the western people.

Let's not be naive now. This argument is akin to the classical reasoning put forth by proponents of capitalism and economic liberalism: everyone can succeed in such a system, since there's no legal discrimination, they claim. But as Karl Marx argued, laws may be considered as nothing more than a superstructure masking effective societal balance of power. Balance of power which can be modeled by things such as the ownership of the means of production or wage bondage.

In other terms, on-paper "freedom" and "equality before the law" means nothing when beneath this appealing surface, resources are distributed in an unequal manner, and when elaborate systemic perpetuation of this concentration of resources in a limited number of hands is maintaining the status quo.

To simplify, yes, Press TV is "allowed" to publish a hundred times the volume of news spread by western propaganda media... Want to know why? Because western regimes know full well that Iran lacks the financial resources necessary to enable Press TV to reach levels of influence even remotely comparable to their own media.

Fact remains that Iranians are bombarded day and night by western and zionist propaganda in the framework of the largest such brainwashing campaign ever devised in the history of man. As a deplorable result of which some Iranians are being systematically misled and incited against their formidable governing system.

But the other side is not allowed to even utter a single word against the dictatorship of Khamenei or to criticise the religion and religious practices in Iran.

Rubbish. The "other side" does much more than to simply "utter words" against the Supreme Leader: it regularly ignores the Supreme Leader's guidelines, it regularly pokes fun at him (as with Rohani's uninspired "manghal" metaphor in response to the Leader's declaration that Iran will burn the JCPOA if Trump rips it up), it even threatens him, as I highlighted right at the beginning of the opening post.

These are the Double Standards of the religious fanatics and must be removed. Worst thing is this that these religious nuts are still unable to see their Double Standards.

In fact it is you who has so far refused to look beyond these simplistic categorizations, which would have allowed you to familiarize yourself with the true multi-faceted and sometimes paradoxical complexity of political and social reality. I provided a wealth of sources allowing you to do so, but you simply chose to skip them.

In true democracies neither one becomes a traitor, nor one has to rebel against the dictatorship, nor the foreign power could play any role.

Modern liberal democracy is basically a hoax, an illusion developed to make subjugated citizens oblivious to their actual plight.

Also, when the resource and power differential is turned upside down in favor of those who resist western and zionist hegemony, then and only then will it become apparent how impervious to outside influence these so-called liberal "democracies" really are.

Iranian Reformists are not the traitors for the last 40 years.

You are once again hiding the crimes of the religious dictatorship of Iran behind the lame excuse of reformists being traitors.

I am simply reminding what treason consists of, and what it does not consist of.

I am highlighting what choices will ensure Iran's stability and development, and what choices will lead to her ruin and definitive obliteration.

To finish, I will reiterate my suggestion: do listen to some of Omid Dana's videos, and then to some of Heshmat Raisi's, starting with those shared in the opening post.

The first thing you shall then discover, is how individuals who by no means can be labelled as "religious fanatics", and who are in fact not even particularly religious, can very well arrive at the legitimate and necessary conclusion that the survival of Iran is inextricably intertwined with the stability of the Islamic Republic and its Leadership.

Just try it out. It would widen your political horizon in an unsuspected manner.

 

[Naofumi]

while the secularists always try to support the JUSTICE, even if they have to speak against their own government.

Foreign Powers are not always bad. We just have to stand with the Western Secularists and we will destroy the RW religious nuts of every country.

You have quite a rosy picture of "Western Secularists" I must say. How are you so sure of their collective intentions that those "secularists" will rise above race, greed and ethnocentrism to be absolutely impartial?

Fanatic Muslims are living in a dream land. Western Secularists don't oppose Israel due to the mighty influence of the so called resistance, but they do it as their moral duty in name of humanity.

But they are at least as worthless as the "the resistance" are not they?