Antonov hopes to complete the An-132D production project with Saudi Arabia

[The SC]

August 25, 2021

Saudi Arabia and Antonov may soon resume a program to build a small transport aircraft with subsequent localization on the Arabian Peninsula.

Sergei Bychkov, General Director of Antonov, spoke about these plans in an interview with Apostrophe.

Speaking of international cooperation: We have a joint project with Saudi Arabia, and what do you think about why the project did not end in a positive light?

With the ex-president of "Antonov" Dmitry Keva, 5 models of our aircrafts were presented to Saudi Arabia, and they chose the AN-32. On its basis the production of an aircraft called AN-132 was organized. The only condition was the change of Ukrainian engines to Western ones. Unfortunately, our command made a tactical mistake: it was decided not only to redesign the aircraft, change the engines, but also to change the control system, etc. The aircraft changed externally, the cost increased, and cooperation with us was suspended. And the government in Saudi Arabia began to put pressure on Airbus.

However, as CEO, I met the Prince of Saudi Arabia. They are ready to resume work, because we already have the relevant experience, we know the weaknesses of the project, how to eliminate them, what to design and what kind of aircraft they need. If not this year, then we hope at the beginning of next year to sign a contract with Riyadh, to jointly create such aircraft, which will eventually be produced at an aircraft plant in Saudi Arabia. The company has already set aside a place for this. I strongly believe in the new aircraft based on the AN-132D: it will be in demand in Africa, South America, the Middle East and Asia.

https://apostrophe.ua/ua/article/so...yi-700-mln-dollarov---direktor-antonova/41239

 

[DJ_Viper]

August 25, 2021
Saudi Arabia and Antonov may soon resume a program to build a small transport aircraft with subsequent localization on the Arabian Peninsula.

No offense, the Arabs have never made sense to me. They waste billions of useless projects. This here is like a 60 year old aircraft (originally) and takes a load of similar personnel to transport vs. a Black Hawk. If they invested this much money with Bombardier, Gulf Stream or another company or even a Chinese one, they'd be working on something like a near Airbus / Boeing design of the current age.

 

[The SC]

No offense, the Arabs have never made sense to me. They waste billions of useless projects. This here is like a 60 year old aircraft (originally) and takes a load of similar personnel to transport vs. a Black Hawk. If they invested this much money with Bombardier, Gulf Stream or another company or even a Chinese one, they'd be working on something like a near Airbus / Boeing design of the current age.

First this is a very advanced upgraded AN-32 to AN-132D.. After a market study it was found that small transport planes have a big demand on a global level..KSA itself needs a lot of them..and will be exporting some after it fills its own order..Also, if you didn't know..KSA is going to build around 120 Blackhawks locally....So at the end it makes very good sense ..

 

[DJ_Viper]

First this is a very advanced upgraded AN-32 to AN-132D.. After a market study it was found that small transport planes have a big demand on a global level..KSA itself needs a lot of them..and will be exporting some after it fills its own order..Also, if you didn't know..KSA is going to build around 120 Blackhawks locally....So at the end it makes very good sense ..

Just a question, why would the KSA need a plane in large numbers that can carry one vehicle or like a dozen soldiers? To airdrop 100 vehicles (normal in a military operation), you'd use 100 jets and associated maintenance cost, heavy consumption of oil, etc? When other projects could give KSA a lot more modern, latest technology and a much lighter emissions footprint?

Black Hawk manufacturing makes sense but it's also obsolete at this point. Why not partner and invest in some advance tech project?

Here's the future of heli's in progress right now. Leaving Apache and Black Hawks into retirement.

 

[The SC]

Just a question, why would the KSA need a plane in large numbers that can carry one vehicle or like a dozen soldiers? To airdrop 100 vehicles (normal in a military operation), you'd use 100 jets and associated maintenance cost, heavy consumption of oil, etc? When other projects could give KSA a lot more modern, latest technology and a much lighter emissions footprint?

Black Hawk manufacturing makes sense but it's also obsolete at this point. Why not partner and invest in some advance tech project?

Here's the future of heli's in progress right now. Leaving Apache and Black Hawks into retirement.

Blackhawks will do for now..The need is actual .. and the platform is very reliable and mature..

Why KSA needs the AN-132D is obvious.. first of all it can carry 3 vehicles not just one.. second this category is needed and wanted all over the world, there is even fierce competition..and third KSA plans to have many variants not just light transport.. ISR, Ambulance, Sea patrol are a few of them there is much more..

 

[Wilhelm II]

No offense, the Arabs have never made sense to me. They waste billions of useless projects. This here is like a 60 year old aircraft (originally) and takes a load of similar personnel to transport vs. a Black Hawk. If they invested this much money with Bombardier, Gulf Stream or another company or even a Chinese one, they'd be working on something like a near Airbus / Boeing design of the current age.

Ukraine is easy and cheap gold mine
We can reach their technologies easier than others

 

[DJ_Viper]

Ukraine is easy and cheap gold mine
We can reach their technologies easier than others

I hope you can see that my criticism means something. Ukraine, outside of Tanks, doesn't have much tech to offer. KSA's money would have been VERY well spent if you'd worked with Embraer, Bombardier, Gulf Stream, etc.
For example, Embraer is providing Pakistan Navy with specialized ASW jets. If KSA had embarked on a similar project to actually manufacture the same, you'd at the same time, gain commercial jet manufacturing capability too as that jet is like Boeing's jets and at the current tech standards. KSA doesn't have money spending issues, such a project would allow you to obtain and build cutting edge jet manufacturing capability for military and commercial use.

 

[Wilhelm II]

I hope you can see that my criticism means something. Ukraine, outside of Tanks, doesn't have much tech to offer. KSA's money would have been VERY well spent if you'd worked with Embraer, Bombardier, Gulf Stream, etc.
For example, Embraer is providing Pakistan Navy with specialized ASW jets. If KSA had embarked on a similar project to actually manufacture the same, you'd at the same time, gain commercial jet manufacturing capability too as that jet is like Boeing's jets and at the current tech standards. KSA doesn't have money spending issues, such a project would allow you to obtain and build cutting edge jet manufacturing capability for military and commercial use.

I understand what you say I agree
But I think Saudi want to make a strong experience base for future projects and work step by step

 

[DJ_Viper]

I understand what you say I agree
But I think Saudi want to make a strong experience base for future projects and work step by step

I'd stick to my opinion as it would have made much more sense and economical use of funds and new tech. Here is what I was suggesting:

Pakistan Navy selects Embraer Lineage 1000E as new MPA: The Sea Sultan - Pakistan Strategic Forum

As predicted by PSF a few days ago, the Pakistan Navy has officially disclosed that the aircraft selected for their Long-Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft (LRMPA) mission is the Embraer Lineage 1000E. After wide-ranging and very extensive modifications, the Lineage 1000E will become the Pakistan...

pakstrategic.com

 

[The SC]

I'd stick to my opinion as it would have made much more sense and economical use of funds and new tech. Here is what I was suggesting:

Pakistan Navy selects Embraer Lineage 1000E as new MPA: The Sea Sultan - Pakistan Strategic Forum

As predicted by PSF a few days ago, the Pakistan Navy has officially disclosed that the aircraft selected for their Long-Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft (LRMPA) mission is the Embraer Lineage 1000E. After wide-ranging and very extensive modifications, the Lineage 1000E will become the Pakistan...

pakstrategic.com

KSA chose the Poseidon P-8 for that role and upgrading a few C-130 for a secondary maritime surveillance role.. you can check threads on the subject here in this section of PDF..
Besides that.. KSA has built a most modern Aviation plant and will start making the new Russian civilian airliner MC-21 soon.. among others..

 

[DJ_Viper]

KSA chose the Poseidon P-8 for that role and upgrading a few C-130 for a secondary maritime surveillance role.. you can check threads on the subject here in this section of PDF..
Besides that.. KSA has built a most modern Aviation plant and will start making the new Russian civilian airliner MC-21 soon.. among others..

1) I didn't say you get the Embraer jet for ASW role. I was using an example how that project would enable you to get the latest tech, both commercial airliner and military use and build it locally. I will bet my money that LM will never allow KSA or any of the ME partners to build Poseidon and associated tech! C-130 is literally a 1950's airframe (albeit very useful today).

2) Oh the story of the Russian MC-21......will KSA use US made engines on it? Because Russians are scared about it as the best engine option still is the US GE or PW. Again, if you embarked on the project I was suggesting, you'd have gained Western tech for engine and airframe through Embraer, Gulf Stream or Bombardier, etc.

We don't need to argue on it. I think no use in beating a dead horse.

 

[The SC]

1) I didn't say you get the Embraer jet for ASW role. I was using an example how that project would enable you to get the latest tech, both commercial airliner and military use and build it locally. I will bet my money that LM will never allow KSA or any of the ME partners to build Poseidon and associated tech! C-130 is literally a 1950's airframe (albeit very useful today).

2) Oh the story of the Russian MC-21......will KSA use US made engines on it? Because Russians are scared about it as the best engine option still is the US GE or PW. Again, if you embarked on the project I was suggesting, you'd have gained Western tech for engine and airframe through Embraer, Gulf Stream or Bombardier, etc.

We don't need to argue on it. I think no use in beating a dead horse.

You can be sure that KSA looked into the Embraer possibility..before taking its decisions.. and did Embraer offer its Western Engines tech to Pakistan..???

 

[The SC]

The Competition Authority approves two joint ventures to manufacture aviation metal structures and metal casting products in the Kingdom

August 30, 2021

The General Authority for Competition announced its no objection to two joint projects for the manufacture of aviation metal structures and metal castings products in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, bringing the total number of joint projects approved by the General Authority for Competition to 10 applications since the beginning of the year.

The authority indicated that it had issued a no-objection decision to establish a joint venture between the Saudi Arabian Company for Industrial Investments (Dusur), the Saudi Company for Military Industries (SAMI) and the French company Figeac Aéro in the field of manufacturing aircraft components, the first joint venture to build a facility in the Kingdom to manufacture aviation structures.

On the other hand, in the same context, the General Authority for Competition issued a no-objection decision to establish a joint venture between the Saudi Arabian Industrial Investments Company (Dusur), Saudi Aramco Development Company and Doosan Heavy Industries and Construction in the supply of castings and forgings.

Dussur Company will own 70%, Saudi Aramco Development Company 15% and Doosan Heavy Industries and Construction Company 15% of the capital of the joint venture.

The authority explained that it had carefully studied the two markets and found that these two projects do not result in any market dominance in terms of market shares for all parties, and that the joint projects will contribute to strengthening the local industry in accordance with the directions of the Kingdom's Vision 2030.


https://www.spa.gov.sa/2279342

The agreement that was signed two years ago has moved to the actual implementation stages:

Jun. 21, 2019

"The new facility, which will be located in either Riyadh or Jeddah, will be managed and operated by highly trained and qualified Saudi engineers and technicians. Activities that will be carried out at the facility include automation operations such as sheet metal work, surface treatment operations, and sub-assembly work, to deliver finished goods to customers. The facility will leverage aviation qualifications and licenses to provide spare parts, including titanium commercial aircraft wings. In addition, the program will support other SAMI joint ventures with the aim of promoting the process of localizing military industries in accordance with the directions of the Kingdom's Vision 2030."

https://www.spa.gov.sa/1936778

These factories will manufacture the hull made of metal, as for the parts from composite materials, there is another Saudi factory that provides them..