Another Captain Martyred in Awaaran, Balochistan

[Kamikaze Pilot]

A general like GD Bakshi .

India can afford general Bakshi because our generals don't meddle in governance. They stick to military affairs.

- PRTP GWD

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

"Can anybody be afraid of the Shehadet? "- a Turkish Army chopper pilot involved in the rescue ops from the hot battle fields. He later became a Shehit

To be a Shehit is a matter of Hosh Baht and Nesib....

 

[FuturePAF]

Turkey’s indigenous technologies - MRAPs, IED detection radars, attack choppers, drones of all sorts (minuscule to humongous) carrying advanced imaging and minintiarized ammos & bullets etc. - have been saving lives of the soldiers and pushing PKK/YPG, supported by the NATO/EU/KSA/UAE etc., to oblivion! Now, these terrorist scums and bastards can’t dare to go out even to pee as ops are being carried out 24/7!!! And, I am talking about the harsh mountainous regions (with vegetation, canyons, caves etc.) of the Northern Irak….

What is the most affordable MRAP (produced by anyone, not just Turkey) that would suite Pakistan’s needs as they are facing a similar threat as Turkey with the PKK. The British Foxhound at US$1.5 million seems like a good vehicle but very expensive. Also per Turkish Doctrine, how many vehicles would Pakistan need to cover FC Baluchistan’s AOR if it implemented a similar doctrine.

Is the the Kirpi at ~$335,000 (per army-guide.con) might a good option, or did the Turkish army find any major faults?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

What is the most affordable MRAP (produced by anyone, not just Turkey) that would suite Pakistan’s needs as they are facing a similar threat as Turkey with the PKK. The British Foxhound at US$1.5 million seems like a good vehicle but very expensive. Also per Turkish Doctrine, how many vehicles would Pakistan need to cover FC Baluchistan’s AOR if it implemented a similar doctrine.

Is the the Kirpi at ~$335,000 (per army-guide.con) might a good option, or did the Turkish army find any major faults?

According to the Turkish sources, Kirpi has saved 5K lives so far as they came under IED attacks…..

Pak needs local manufacturing facility to produce them en masse…

 

[FuturePAF]

According to the Turkish sources, Kirpi has saved 5K lives so far as they came under IED attacks…..

Pak needs local manufacturing facility to produce them en masse…

Can you confirm at what price does Turkey procure the vehicles for its forces and how many it has over how large of an area?

 

[Moon]

What is the most affordable MRAP (produced by anyone, not just Turkey) that would suite Pakistan’s needs as they are facing a similar threat as Turkey with the PKK. The British Foxhound at US$1.5 million seems like a good vehicle but very expensive. Also per Turkish Doctrine, how many vehicles would Pakistan need to cover FC Baluchistan’s AOR if it implemented a similar doctrine.

Is the the Kirpi at ~$335,000 (per army-guide.con) might a good option, or did the Turkish army find any major faults?

Earlier MRAPs like Buffels and Caspers can be made or bought dirt cheap, especially in an economy of scale scenario, VMMDs are just as important and can prevent thousands of casualties, yet we've refused to buy the. 1400 MRAPs or 140 tanks? which do you think will be a game changer? plus imagine how many jobs HIT could provide.

 

[FuturePAF]

Earlier MRAPs like Buffels and Caspers can be made or bought dirt cheap, especially in an economy of scale scenario, VMMDs are just as important and can prevent thousands of casualties, yet we've refused to buy the. 1400 MRAPs or 140 tanks? which do you think will be a game changer? plus imagine how many jobs HIT could provide.

Probably best to buy off the open market in bulk if they can be bought at a discounted price and the vehicles are actually suitable for the terrain. No sense getting a gas guzzler that breaks down easily especially considering there are probably up to 20 years of field data on its performance.

 

[Inception-06]

Probably best to buy off the open market in bulk if they can be bought at a discounted price and the vehicles are actually suitable for the terrain. No sense getting a gas guzzler that breaks down easily especially considering there are probably up to 20 years of field data on its performance.

The only and best solution would be a MRAP vehicle based on the HINO Chasis, Pakistan is producing this Truck under licens.

 

[Tornado23]

Earlier MRAPs like Buffels and Caspers can be made or bought dirt cheap, especially in an economy of scale scenario, VMMDs are just as important and can prevent thousands of casualties, yet we've refused to buy the. 1400 MRAPs or 140 tanks? which do you think will be a game changer? plus imagine how many jobs HIT could provide.

You cant actually use the fact that we bought tanks instead of MRAPS. our army needs to maintain a qualitative edge over our conventional nemesis. As Panzerkiel had said, MRAP procurement is in the pipeline. But in terms of which are more important i would say tanks are. They are both important, but the army needs its tanks to both defend and also attack the enemy. Remember. In the grand scheme of things, when our nemesis attacks with hundreds of tanks, thousands of soldiers, dozens of arty pieces etc etc, which would you want? A tank whose armour can withstand pretty much anything they can throw at you, whilst throwing back shells which can knock out their tanks at range, or a MRAP...

The need for MRAP is there. The more important things need to come first.

 

[FuturePAF]

The only and best solution would be a MRAP vehicle based on the HINO Chasis, Pakistan is producing this Truck under licens.

But perhaps doing the R&D to convert it will leave it with vulnerabilities and take a long time. Why jot go for a proven platform like the Turkish MRAP. Pakistan could sign a deal for a few “off the shelf” and start producing the rest at HIT. A production run of 2000-3000 at ~$335,000 would end up costing less then a Billion dollars over a number of years but reassure our troops and the Chinese we take their safety seriously.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Can you confirm at what price does Turkey procure the vehicles for its forces and how many it has over how large of an area?

I have no clue…

 

[Inception-06]

But perhaps doing the R&D to convert it will leave it with vulnerabilities and take a long time. Why jot go for a proven platform like the Turkish MRAP. Pakistan could sign a deal for a few “off the shelf” and start producing the rest at HIT. A production run of 2000-3000 at ~$335,000 would end up costing less then a Billion dollars over a number of years but reassure our troops and the Chinese we take their safety seriously.

You are right, my second suggest is to build drone and helicopters bases ( also landing starting strips for jets) which cover the whole war theater, as you mentioned in earlier posts, close air support from Drones, Helicopters or jets must be available for every post, convoy, bunker, patrol etc.

Posts must be replaced by bunker or fort complexes.

Air borne support ( back up call) must be available 24 hours for every post, soldier etc.

Long range foot patrols by light commando and FC units through the Enemy territories is a must. Sitting in posts and waiting for the next massacre is not proactive.

The whole war doctrine and strategy in the so called „hybrid war“ must be changed from passive to proactive. But there are better expert’s then you and me, the results seem not become better not we see any changes. The next advice for you and me would Just shut up and watch, so let’s .

 

[Moon]

You are right, my second suggest is to build drone and helicopters bases ( also landing starting strips for jets) which cover the whole war theater, as you mentioned in earlier posts, close air support from Drones, Helicopters or jets must be available for every post, convoy, bunker, patrol etc.

Posts must be replaced by bunker or fort complexes.

Air borne support ( back up call) must be available 24 hours for every post, soldier etc.

Long range foot patrols by light commando and FC units through the Enemy territories is a must. Sitting in posts and waiting for the next massacre is not proactive.

The whole war doctrine and strategy in the so called „hybrid war“ must be changed frompassive to proactive. But there are better expert’s then you and me, the results seem not become better not we see any changes. The next advice for you and me would Just shut up and watch, so let’s .

This. Having aerial surveillance is cheaper and more effective than MRAPs (which still should be used) plus it has a fear factor to it which ground forces don't, especially in areas where troops have to disembark and travel on foot. You can't see a drone nor can you hear it.
Plus COIN aircrafts are need of the hour, they're cheap and can make use of less expensive munitions, plus can take off and land from short unpaved airstrips.

We also need FOB style bases away from population centers in Balochistan as well in addition to cantonments which are already there. These can have airstrips and helipads for rapid air

The only and best solution would be a MRAP vehicle based on the HINO Chasis, Pakistan is producing this Truck under licens.

Not all MRAPs need to be high-end or top-notch. These HINO based MRAPs can be used to transport troops/police forces in high risk areas within urban centers, case in point the attack on army trucks on Airport road in Quetta. Or even as police trucks (Serena hotel blast). Or even as busses to carry VIPs/engineers/foreigners.

But perhaps doing the R&D to convert it will leave it with vulnerabilities and take a long time. Why jot go for a proven platform like the Turkish MRAP. Pakistan could sign a deal for a few “off the shelf” and start producing the rest at HIT. A production run of 2000-3000 at ~$335,000 would end up costing less then a Billion dollars over a number of years but reassure our troops and the Chinese we take their safety seriously.

I mean we could JV with Turkish manufacturers and become a regional supplier of sorts.

You cant actually use the fact that we bought tanks instead of MRAPS. our army needs to maintain a qualitative edge over our conventional nemesis. As Panzerkiel had said, MRAP procurement is in the pipeline. But in terms of which are more important i would say tanks are. They are both important, but the army needs its tanks to both defend and also attack the enemy. Remember. In the grand scheme of things, when our nemesis attacks with hundreds of tanks, thousands of soldiers, dozens of arty pieces etc etc, which would you want? A tank whose armour can withstand pretty much anything they can throw at you, whilst throwing back shells which can knock out their tanks at range, or a MRAP...

The need for MRAP is there. The more important things need to come first.

Absence of MRAPs has killed more troops than having outdated tanks, which btw we wouldn't have needed to buy had HIT invested in R&D which it could've by generating capital from selling MRAPs in large amounts. Had we started on MRAPs in 2000s we could've been the leading supplier to GCC and other African countries as well.

 

[Tornado23]

Absence of MRAPs has killed more troops than having outdated tanks, which btw we wouldn't have needed to buy had HIT invested in R&D which it could've by generating capital from selling MRAPs in large amounts. Had we started on MRAPs in 2000s we could've been the leading supplier to GCC and other African countries as well.

Army has MRAPS and used them during our WOT. Balochistan remains the big hot spot where these IED attacks happen. But you must remember that the terrain of Balochistan doesnt exactly help. Id prefer drones than MRAPS. Can cover more area and engage targets at the same time. All the while, the operator is safe.

But tanks have another advantage over the MRAP. Morale. Which would improve your morale more? Seeing a MRAP being deployed in a firefight, firing his MG (depending on the mrap) or seeing the tank being deployed firing his 125mm HE-FS shell which obliterates the target?

As for HIT... My friend.... In the 2000s we needed a good counter to the indian t72s and t90s. The t80ud (i know its from the 90s really), Al Khalid and Al Zarrar investments have allowed to neutralise that threat. Like i said. Army has to keep its qualitative edge in conventional warfare

 

[FuturePAF]

This. Having aerial surveillance is cheaper and more effective than MRAPs (which still should be used) plus it has a fear factor to it which ground forces don't, especially in areas where troops have to disembark and travel on foot. You can't see a drone nor can you hear it.
Plus COIN aircrafts are need of the hour, they're cheap and can make use of less expensive munitions, plus can take off and land from short unpaved airstrips.

We also need FOB style bases away from population centers in Balochistan as well in addition to cantonments which are already there. These can have airstrips and helipads for rapid air

Not all MRAPs need to be high-end or top-notch. These HINO based MRAPs can be used to transport troops/police forces in high risk areas within urban centers, case in point the attack on army trucks on Airport road in Quetta. Or even as police trucks (Serena hotel blast). Or even as busses to carry VIPs/engineers/foreigners.

I mean we could JV with Turkish manufacturers and become a regional supplier of sorts.

Absence of MRAPs has killed more troops than having outdated tanks, which btw we wouldn't have needed to buy had HIT invested in R&D which it could've by generating capital from selling MRAPs in large amounts. Had we started on MRAPs in 2000s we could've been the leading supplier to GCC and other African countries as well.

perhaps we can reach out to the South Africans, they seem to produce efficient barebones designs in the 80s for their war in Angola. Even a mix of older vehicles in bulk might work as long as our troops are protected.