And Reference Not File Against Justice Waqar

[Musafir117]

Okay Ptian start abusing with u turn logics that Why government not doing it now.
What I heard in a recent meeting between Bajwa Sahib PMIK COAS not happy with continued clashes between institutions.
Chalo ho jao shuru

 

[tkmd]

U can’t file a reference when it wont work. Government should not comment on such verdicts. Utterly childish. Focus on the economy, backlog of cases in the courts, law and order and India.

 

[Xestan]

You already have a reference against a Judge you're finding hard to defend. This one would be thrown out in a blink of an eye since the law says, a Judge cannot be fired on a judicial order, it has to be a misconduct.

The Government has realised it is going for a direct clash with the judiciary if it defends the convicted traitor Musharraf. Law Minister and the AG has been told to keep their mouths shut.

Also, it has international implications, since the State of Pakistan has shown as evidence in ICJ Justice Waqar Seth's judgements regarding Military court decisions, that civilian appeal exist for Military courts, it will be shooting itself in the foot trying to take him down.

So, not an easy road. The law minister and the AG got carried away in emotions with their support for Musharraf but later on it was realised that it's not easy as said in a press conference.

 

[Musafir117]

You already have a reference against a Judge you're finding hard to defend. This one would be thrown out in a blink of an eye since the law says, a Judge cannot be fired on a judicial order, it has to be a misconduct.

The Government has realised it is going for a direct clash with the judiciary if it defends the convicted traitor Musharraf. Law Minister and the AG has been told to keep their mouths shut.

I like your post but stop myself officially like it after the words “ traitor “ he did mistakes but he isn’t a traitor no one traitor here, some foolish like him to use power and think they are gods Ayub Bhutto Zia Nawaz IK all are same power hungry and use that power to satisfy their ego, this cancer deep rooted in our culture from a peon to clerk or any officer all are same.

 

[Xestan]

I like your post but stop myself officially like it after the words “ traitor “ he did mistakes but he isn’t a traitor no one traitor here, some foolish like him to use power and think they are gods Ayub Bhutto Zia Nawaz IK all are same power hungry and use that power to satisfy their ego, this cancer deep rooted in our culture from a peon to clerk or any officer all are same.

Lets not go there, this thread is not the place to discuss if he's a traitor or not. I just happen to agree with the Special Court's judgement, like a lot of agree with SC's judgements which declared Nawaz Sharif as dishonest.

Anyways, relevant to the thread:

Govt undecided on filing reference against Justice Seth

ISLAMABAD: The day the special court had issued its detailed verdict in the Pervez Musharraf treason case, an incensed government announced a plan to seek the removal of the presiding judge, Justice Waqar Seth, through a presidential reference over his “three-day hanging” rider to the sentence of the former military ruler.


But now the government appears to be in two minds on whether or not to file the reference against Justice Seth with some members in the inner sanctum opposing the idea of approaching the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC), the apex forum mandated to hear complaints and take action against judges of superior courts.

Justice Waqar Seth, who is also the chief justice of Peshawar High Court, wrote the grisly rider to Musharraf’s death sentence that stirred up a storm. Para 66 of the detailed judgment authored by Justice Seth states: “We direct the law enforcement agencies to strive their level best to apprehend the fugitive/convict and to ensure that the punishment is inflicted as per law and if found dead, his corpse be dragged to the D-Chowk, Islamabad, Pakistan and be hanged for 03 days.”

The “bizarre” rider, as many call it, drew the wrath of the military and the government with the federal law minister announcing that the government would file a reference against Justice Seth in the SJC over his “unconstitutional” observation.

However, sources told The Express Tribune on Saturday that the government might not file the reference as it could further stoke tensions with the judiciary. The superior bars have also strongly reacted to the government announcement to file the reference against Justice Seth.

One section within the government has opposed the move, saying that the SJC would not sack a judge on the basis of his judicial order, a senior official has confirmed to The Express Tribune. Lending credence to the official’s claim, the prime minister’s top aide on accountability Shahzad Akbar has, meanwhile, denied media reports that claimed he was drafting a presidential reference against Justice Seth.

Relations between the government and the superior judiciary appear to be tense following the recent tiff. Environment at the swearing-in ceremony of new Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Justice Gulzar Ahmed appeared to be tense, according to a participant of the ceremony at the Presidency.

Not all the cabinet ministers were in attendance, though the army chief felicitated the new top judge as did the prime minister and the president.

Some government officials had recommended to the prime minister to give a good gesture to the new CJP in an attempt to lower tensions with the judiciary. Sources claim that President Alvi invited the new CJP to dinner on Monday night, but he politely declined.


Law Minister Farogh Naseem has questioned the “sanity” of Justice Seth over his “three-day hanging” rider to Musharraf’s sentence. A former AGP fear that questioning the “sanity” of the judge may provide India ground to file a review against the International Court of Justice (ICJ) judgment to establish that the Pakistani judiciary was not fit to try RAW agent Kulbhushan Jadhav.

The Indians may take the plea that if, according to Pakistan’s top civil and military officials, the judiciary could not be trusted to try a former president, then how could it be trusted to try an Indian spy?

In fact, Justice Seth’s judgment was specifically mentioned by the ICJ in the Jadhav case and if the government now calls him unfit to be a judge, then if nothing else, it would be quite an embarrassing position for Pakistan if Delhi files such a review, he added.

Justice Seth had set aside the trials of military court convicts in a judgment which also rescued Pakistan before the ICJ in the Jadhav case.

Former AGP Ashtar Ausaf Ali also believes that the presidential reference against Justice Seth might have international implications as it may be used by India against Pakistan before the ICJ.

Recently, Justice Seth had declared the functioning of scores of internment centres in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa unconstitutional. Interestingly, senior lawyers have been recommending that Justice Seth is elevated to the apex court.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2122700/1-govt-undecided-filing-reference-justice-seth/

 

[Syed1.]

You already have a reference against a Judge you're finding hard to defend.

Unless you are yourself attending the SC proceedings you have absolutely no proof of that and just running mouth as usual. Also the reference against that judge is because he has assets abroad for which he has no means of acquiring. Maybe first educate yourself of all the facts before acting like an expert, unless you want to continue looking like a dumb, ignorant keyboard warrior like you are doing at the moment.

 

[Xestan]

Unless you are yourself attending the SC proceedings you have absolutely no proof of that and just running mouth as usual. Also the reference against that judge is because he has assets abroad for which he has no means of acquiring. Maybe first educate yourself of all the facts before acting like an expert, unless you want to continue looking like a dumb, ignorant keyboard warrior like you are doing at the moment.

The SC proceeding is reported in detail by the media.

 

[Syed1.]

The SC judgement is reported in detail by the media.

The case is ongoing so how did the SC come out with a judgement?


Please don't talk without knowledge.

 

[Xestan]

The case is ongoing so how did the SC come out with a judgement?


Please don't talk without knowledge.

*proceedings

 

[Musafir117]

Lets not go there, this thread is not the place to discuss if he's a traitor or not. I just happen to agree with the Special Court's judgement, like a lot of agree with SC's judgements which declared Nawaz Sharif as dishonest.

Anyways, relevant to the thread:

Govt undecided on filing reference against Justice Seth

ISLAMABAD: The day the special court had issued its detailed verdict in the Pervez Musharraf treason case, an incensed government announced a plan to seek the removal of the presiding judge, Justice Waqar Seth, through a presidential reference over his “three-day hanging” rider to the sentence of the former military ruler.


But now the government appears to be in two minds on whether or not to file the reference against Justice Seth with some members in the inner sanctum opposing the idea of approaching the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC), the apex forum mandated to hear complaints and take action against judges of superior courts.

Justice Waqar Seth, who is also the chief justice of Peshawar High Court, wrote the grisly rider to Musharraf’s death sentence that stirred up a storm. Para 66 of the detailed judgment authored by Justice Seth states: “We direct the law enforcement agencies to strive their level best to apprehend the fugitive/convict and to ensure that the punishment is inflicted as per law and if found dead, his corpse be dragged to the D-Chowk, Islamabad, Pakistan and be hanged for 03 days.”

The “bizarre” rider, as many call it, drew the wrath of the military and the government with the federal law minister announcing that the government would file a reference against Justice Seth in the SJC over his “unconstitutional” observation.

However, sources told The Express Tribune on Saturday that the government might not file the reference as it could further stoke tensions with the judiciary. The superior bars have also strongly reacted to the government announcement to file the reference against Justice Seth.

One section within the government has opposed the move, saying that the SJC would not sack a judge on the basis of his judicial order, a senior official has confirmed to The Express Tribune. Lending credence to the official’s claim, the prime minister’s top aide on accountability Shahzad Akbar has, meanwhile, denied media reports that claimed he was drafting a presidential reference against Justice Seth.

Relations between the government and the superior judiciary appear to be tense following the recent tiff. Environment at the swearing-in ceremony of new Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Justice Gulzar Ahmed appeared to be tense, according to a participant of the ceremony at the Presidency.

Not all the cabinet ministers were in attendance, though the army chief felicitated the new top judge as did the prime minister and the president.

Some government officials had recommended to the prime minister to give a good gesture to the new CJP in an attempt to lower tensions with the judiciary. Sources claim that President Alvi invited the new CJP to dinner on Monday night, but he politely declined.


Law Minister Farogh Naseem has questioned the “sanity” of Justice Seth over his “three-day hanging” rider to Musharraf’s sentence. A former AGP fear that questioning the “sanity” of the judge may provide India ground to file a review against the International Court of Justice (ICJ) judgment to establish that the Pakistani judiciary was not fit to try RAW agent Kulbhushan Jadhav.

The Indians may take the plea that if, according to Pakistan’s top civil and military officials, the judiciary could not be trusted to try a former president, then how could it be trusted to try an Indian spy?

In fact, Justice Seth’s judgment was specifically mentioned by the ICJ in the Jadhav case and if the government now calls him unfit to be a judge, then if nothing else, it would be quite an embarrassing position for Pakistan if Delhi files such a review, he added.

Justice Seth had set aside the trials of military court convicts in a judgment which also rescued Pakistan before the ICJ in the Jadhav case.

Former AGP Ashtar Ausaf Ali also believes that the presidential reference against Justice Seth might have international implications as it may be used by India against Pakistan before the ICJ.

Recently, Justice Seth had declared the functioning of scores of internment centres in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa unconstitutional. Interestingly, senior lawyers have been recommending that Justice Seth is elevated to the apex court.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2122700/1-govt-undecided-filing-reference-justice-seth/

What I was wondering why not F Nasim resign one more time to defend Mushraff like he did with Bajawa Sahib case.
The answer is simple, PTI government as usual divided in this case too, Choudhry brothers are fully backing up Mushraff same as MQM but Balochi alliance “ silent “ same as IK who not in a position to even tweet his Comments. Cowards

 

[Snakebite]

Well, no one has mentioned so far that it was Supreme Court's decision to make the special court for Musharaf Case and when they did that, they also mentioned that no one will be able to file a reference against the judges of the special court. So Gov can't do jack shit and will only suck on a lollypop.

 

[graphican]

Not filing a case is because of the eventual effect on Kulbhushan's case. Its state's decision not to go against that particular judge.

 

[Xestan]

What I was wondering why not F Nasim resign one more time to defend Mushraff like he did with Bajawa Sahib case.
The answer is simple, PTI government as usual divided in this case too, Choudhry brothers are fully backing up Mushraff same as MQM but Balochi alliance “ silent “ same as IK who not in a position to even tweet his Comments. Cowards

As I said before, I fail to understand how can this Govt. defend Musharraf when in reality there's no one on this earth PM IK hates more than Musharraf.

Well, no one has mentioned so far that it was Supreme Court's decision to make the special court for Musharaf Case and when they did that, they also mentioned that no one will be able to file a reference against the judges of the special court. So Gov can't do jack shit and will only suck on a lollypop.

Negative, the court was brought into being by a notification of the Federal Government, there's no SC decision for this. SC was only requested to appoint judges.

 

[Syed1.]

*proceedings

Yes patwaris have a habit of making tall claims while the "proceedings" are ongoing. Who can forget the victory signs of the darbaris Saad Rafiq and others when the JIT was formed. The rest we all know what happened. Let the case conclude, if the judge is able to prove he bought the properties through legal means then he will be declared innocent. So again my advice to you is do not act like an expert and let the case conclude.

 

[Musafir117]

Not filing a case is because of the eventual effect on Kulbhushan's case. Its state's decision not to go against that particular judge.

Agree but tell them don’t open their sick mouths before getting on a point. It’s embarrassing and disgraceful acts.