Anatomy of the Hatf-VIII Ra’ad Air Launched Cruise Missile

[JamD]

You're right.

I think it's reasonable to bet that the JF-17B/Block-III can carry 2 Ra'ad II.

Not a coincidence that the PAF solved the most obvious issue/obstacle preventing the JF-17 from carrying the Ra'ad in the first place (replace horizontal stabilizers with new compact tail-stock).

Ra'ad I/II are strategic weapons (as opposed to tactical weapons) so there is no benefit in telling the Indian planners that only our Mirages can carry this nuclear capable weapon so you can more easily target them. This means as soon as the JF-17 is able to launch Ra'ads well see it announced and shown.

I think the size and weight are not a problem anymore with the introduction of Ra'ad II. The only hurdle now is integration and certification. Normally this wouldve been done in China but cant be for Ra'ad for obvious reasons. The newly acquired dynamic simulations and integration setup at PAC is probably working on integrating the Ra'ad II on the JF-17 as we speak.

I'd give it a year (or two at most) before we see a JF-17 launch of Ra'ad II. I will also strongly suspect a JF-17B to do it.

 

[Falcon26]

I will never understand why PAF hasn’t procured the SOM-missiles. PAF sorely needs stealth next generation cruise missiles to neutralize Indian air defense systems. There are no two ways about it. Ra’ad is not going to cut it and PAF will learn this the hard way.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

I will never understand why PAF hasn’t procured the SOM-missiles. PAF sorely needs stealth next generation cruise missiles to neutralize Indian air defense systems. There are no two ways about it. Ra’ad is not going to cut it and PAF will learn this the hard way.

Why did you assume that Raad isn't stealth?

 

[MastanKhan]

I will never understand why PAF hasn’t procured the SOM-missiles. PAF sorely needs stealth next generation cruise missiles to neutralize Indian air defense systems. There are no two ways about it. Ra’ad is not going to cut it and PAF will learn this the hard way.

Hi,

That is one strange post---. Why would pakistan go for an inferior missiles
---.

Hatf V111 has a 600 + km range declared ie---378 miles range---on a 2500 + lbs missile---which is a massive strike range for an alcm in our arena---. But the actual range is closer to 500 - 600 miles---.

378 miles range means that a mirage 3 can do a strike at mumbai---or make an easier target from farther away if a lighter war head was used and more fuel capability enhanced---.

It is our missile---It has no restrictions on it---we can do whatever we want to do with it---.

Our weapons are not for show and strut---but for actual use---.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I will never understand why PAF hasn’t procured the SOM-missiles. PAF sorely needs stealth next generation cruise missiles to neutralize Indian air defense systems. There are no two ways about it. Ra’ad is not going to cut it and PAF will learn this the hard way.

It looks like the Ra'ad II will make its way to the JF-17. It'll get the job done, but since it's a strategic weapon at its core, the PAF won't use the Ra'ad I/II for skirmishes or conventional ops.

The H-2/H-4 and IREK are the conventional ops weapons, and the JF-17 can carry the latter. To H-2/H-4 will not work from the JF-17 (the horizontal stabilizers will interfere with the JF-17's mechanical functions).

However, a Raptor-III type weapon (let's call it 'H-6') could be an option, and the PAF might have already taken it up (since the reveal of the new blacked-out 'smart weapon' in 2019). If not, the SOM could be an option too. Either way, it'll take time and money to integrate, test and certify a new SOW.

That said, if Azerbaijan orders the JF-17, I think SOM-integration will come (since Azerbaijan is a customer of that ALCM), and on Azerbaijan's bill. However, I'd prefer if we could manufacture our own SOM-type ALCM by reducing the Ra'ad II in size. It might be tough to roll-out in large numbers though.

@JamD I wonder how long it'll be before AWC and PAC spin-off smart munitions production to an entity focused on that work. In Turkey, you have Roketsan that's managing that entire channel, even when some other entity designs and develops the weapon (e.g., Tubitak-SAGE). A new facility could free-up capacity at both AWC and PAC, allowing them to focus on design/development and aircraft production, respectively.

 

[JamD]

@JamD I wonder how long it'll be before AWC and PAC spin-off smart munitions production to an entity focused on that work. In Turkey, you have Roketsan that's managing that entire channel, even when some other entity designs and develops the weapon (e.g., Tubitak-SAGE). A new facility could free-up capacity at both AWC and PAC, allowing them to focus on design/development and aircraft production, respectively.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. AWC (like most strategic organizations that are often competing instead of cooperating) is possessive about the work it does. Also it does have a lot of capability. Maybe in the far future we'll see a parallel set up at PAC but that too is unlikely. Turkey operates in a much more open manner than us. For us everything is under the "cotton" curtain (lol). There will be, and there is a lot of resistance to opening up military research in the way it is in Turkey or how they want to at PAC. Nobody wants their monopoly to go away.

 

[Falcon26]

Hi,

That is one strange post---. Why would pakistan go for an inferior missiles
---.

Hatf V111 has a 600 + km range declared ie---378 miles range---on a 2500 + lbs missile---which is a massive strike range for an alcm in our arena---. But the actual range is closer to 500 - 600 miles---.

378 miles range means that a mirage 3 can do a strike at mumbai---or make an easier target from farther away if a lighter war head was used and more fuel capability enhanced---.

It is our missile---It has no restrictions on it---we can do whatever we want to do with it---.

Our weapons are not for show and strut---but for actual use---.

one word: stealth

SOM is at least a generation ahead of Ra’ad and uses composite materials and advanced subsystems. Has considerable input from Lockheed Martin which wanted it for the F-35. Assuming Ra’ad is superior missile is a bold audacious statement. As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said, Ra’ad would most likely be used for noNconventional attacks; SOM is the ideal platform for conventional strikes and SEAD missions, Raptor III is also another fine alternative.

 

[MastanKhan]

one word: stealth

SOM is at least a generation ahead of Ra’ad and uses composite materials and advanced subsystems. Has considerable input from Lockheed Martin which wanted it for the F-35. Assuming Ra’ad is superior missile is a bold audacious statement. As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said, Ra’ad would most likely be used for noNconventional attacks; SOM is the ideal platform for conventional strikes and SEAD missions, Raptor III is also another fine alternative.

Hi,

Only if I could tell you---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

one word: stealth

SOM is at least a generation ahead of Ra’ad and uses composite materials and advanced subsystems. Has considerable input from Lockheed Martin which wanted it for the F-35. Assuming Ra’ad is superior missile is a bold audacious statement. As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said, Ra’ad would most likely be used for noNconventional attacks; SOM is the ideal platform for conventional strikes and SEAD missions, Raptor III is also another fine alternative.

On top of it, the turbo jet engines will be from KALE group...

 

[JamD]

The Ra'ad I may fit on the JF-17 afterall. This picture is recent (last month).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Ra'ad I may fit on the JF-17 afterall. This picture is recent (last month).View attachment 648160

There's always a chance it could be the GB6 though.

 

[JamD]

There's always a chance it could be the GB6 though.

I've stared at the Ra'ad enough to know that that is a Ra'ad-1. Also this is recent and reads second phase. So good news I suppose. We should see the JF-17 with Ra'ad soon.

Let me be the first to admit I was wrong about the Ra'ad not being able to fit under the JF-17. The issues must have been of local integration instead.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I've stared at the Ra'ad enough to know that that is a Ra'ad-1. Also this is recent and reads second phase. So good news I suppose. We should see the JF-17 with Ra'ad soon.

Let me be the first to admit I was wrong about the Ra'ad not being able to fit under the JF-17. The issues must have been of local integration.

Interesting!

 

[JamD]

Ra'ad I/II are strategic weapons (as opposed to tactical weapons) so there is no benefit in telling the Indian planners that only our Mirages can carry this nuclear capable weapon so you can more easily target them. This means as soon as the JF-17 is able to launch Ra'ads well see it announced and shown.

I think the size and weight are not a problem anymore with the introduction of Ra'ad II. The only hurdle now is integration and certification. Normally this wouldve been done in China but cant be for Ra'ad for obvious reasons. The newly acquired dynamic simulations and integration setup at PAC is probably working on integrating the Ra'ad II on the JF-17 as we speak.

I'd give it a year (or two at most) before we see a JF-17 launch of Ra'ad II. I will also strongly suspect a JF-17B to do it.

So I was at least half (or a third) right lol.

Damn so I was basically on point with the scale and pixel counting but wrong about whether not the landing gear would interfere with the fins or not. Also, not on the centerline which was obvious I guess.
Also, this might just be a lazy graphics designer and they're actually integrating Raad 2.

 

[Safriz]

So I was at least half (or a third) right lol.

Damn so I was basically on point with the scale and pixel counting but wrong about whether not the landing gear would interfere with the fins or not. Also, not on the centerline which was obvious I guess.
Also, this might just be a lazy graphics designer and they're actually integrating Raad 2.
View attachment 648167

Raad 1 wasn't made for thunder.
Raad 2 is the one made like storm shadow and meant to be integrated with thunder