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Analysts Skeptical Over Pakistan-Russia Su-35 Negotiations

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Analysts are generally skeptical at present of reports Pakistan and Russia are engaged in negotiations for the delivery of a number of Su-35 Flanker E fighter aircraft, though there is a potential requirement for such a heavy fighter.

The reports, first published in Russian media, cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying both sides were negotiating for the delivery of an unspecified number of Su-35 jets alongside the Mi-35M "Hind E" helicopter gunships that have recently been agreed upon.

However, no word on any such negotiations was received from the Ministry of Defence Production in Pakistan when asked for comment on the issue. The agency also handles acquisition.

Experts are generally skeptical of any Su-35 being acquired by Pakistan.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said he "would be most surprised if there were to be any arrangement for provision of Su-35s."

"The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift," Cloughley said.

Though India is actively seeking to diversify its source of equipment from reliance on Russia, and the latter is seeking a new customer that includes limited defense sales to Pakistan, the Indo-Russian relationship is still very strong as evidenced by the co-development of the next generation PAK-FA stealth aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Pakistani Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail is also unconvinced at present that negotiations for the Su-35 are actually underway.

"To me it seems more like an offer by the Russians, more than anything else," he said.

Many analysts have considered the current Pakistani plan to carry on investing in the JF-17 Thunder program, and acquire further new or surplus F-16s if possible, to be the optimal way of modernizing its air power as well as reducing combat types. A role for such a heavy fighter as the Su-35 has not generally been envisioned.

However, Tufail says there is a possible need for something in this class on two accounts: diversification and to support naval operations.

The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view)," he said. "Given the changing geo-politics and the Chinese investment whose trade terminus is Gwadar, there is definitely going to be a need for a long-range fighter. So essentially, I see it as a guarantor of maritime security as far as the airspace is concerned."

Pakistan has never operated a twin-engine fighter aircraft, but Tufail says this has been a shortcoming.

"This has been a yawning gap in [the air force's] capabilities. These fighters would also allow unhindered patrolling by the naval [long range maritime patrol aircraft], as well as providing top cover to our fleet at sea," he said.

He does not see this as a departure from the established defense posture, but recognition of an existing shortcoming.

"All of this may sound like a sudden switch from continental strategy to a maritime one, but it is high time that we paid serious attention to this aspect in the fast changing geopolitical scenario."

Pakistan's air power over the Arabian Sea already received a boost this month when No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron based in Karachi was re-equipped September 6 with the JF-17 Block II after surrendering its Chengdu F-7P fighters.

Speaking at the time, Tufail said this was overdue: "The re-equipment of [No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron] was due as they had the oldest lot of F-7s. The JF-17 was the obvious replacement."

However, he did not believe it would take over the anti-shipping strike role from the Mirage 5, which he flew during his air force career, even though the JF-17 can carry the C-802A/CSS-N-8 Saccade or the supersonic CM-400AKG.

"This, however, does not necessarily imply that it will immediately take over the maritime attack role. The Mirage-5PA2/3 is still a capable aircraft, though long in the tooth by now. Most likely, the replacement of these Mirages would have a maritime role, so it could be a couple of years before we see a newer capability," he said.

Whether that replacement is the Su-35, however, remains to be seen.

Analysts Skeptical Over Pakistan-Russia Su-35 Negotiations
 
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Analyst, author and former Pakistani Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail is also unconvinced at present that negotiations for the Su-35 are actually underway.

"To me it seems more like an offer by the Russians, more than anything else," he said.

So we get the confirmation from Sir Kaiser Tufail
 
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So we get the confirmation from Sir Kaiser Tufail
Indeed. In all likelihood the twin engine fighter requirement will probably be realized through the J-31. The Su-35 (at least at this time) just seems too far out there, talk about China selling J-11s would have made more sense (with Russia quietly providing the engines).
 
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Its obvious they will be Skeptical but if there is a very little chance Pakistan should go for it.

However I doubt it too :P
 
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Russia are engaged in negotiations for the delivery of a number of Su-35 Flanker E fighter aircraft

Why would someone offer like this by saying about the delivery of Su-35..... Plus he told about the Naval wing in which Su-35 can be used to protect Gawadar and Sea

The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view),


oh well we will have to wait for another News from Defence Ministry of Pak and Something from Russia
 
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So we get the confirmation from Sir Kaiser Tufail

My guess is that Air Forces and defence suppliers continuously talk to each other in an unending series of probes and offers. Russian disappointment with India and Pakistan's search for its next fighter may have taken these initial contacts to a slightly deeper level. Russia may have taken this opportunity to rattle India for its overtures to West. It is also good for Pakistan as well. Sends a message to West. Most probably talks won't go far but it sure shows progress being made in relations.
 
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Russia are engaged in negotiations for the delivery of a number of Su-35 Flanker E fighter aircraft

Why would someone offer like this by saying about the delivery of Su-35..... Plus he told about the Naval wing in which Su-35 can be used to protect Gawadar and Sea

The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view),


oh well we will have to wait for another News from Defence Ministry of Pak and Something from Russia
That where they Fit the bill navel two SQ of flankers with russian arms would be wounderful with jf17 .why i mirages will be replaced by su35 that would separate navel airarm from airforce .
 
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Wow what a source a former Pakistani Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail.:enjoy:
 
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Mig 35 have almost equivalent performance with torque vectoring RD 33 latest version and AESA radar. Big plus point would be same JF17 engine very comfortable and feasible to maintain. We would be in strong position to get latest thrust vectoring more powerful smokeless engine for JF17, that incredible enhancement for JF17 would be real real force multiplier a big big additional benefit. Thats why i think mig 35 is more considerable than su35 the super flanker. Later J31 incorporation with same engine again.

MiG-35 is a new export variant that combines the modern systems of the MiG-29M2 with an AESA radar. The fighter plane has the thrust vectoring of the MiG-29OVT as an additional option. Improved avionics and weapon systems, notably the new AESA radar and the uniquely designed optical locator system (OLS), make the aircraft less dependent on ground-controlled interception (GCI) systems and enables the MiG-35 to conduct independent multirole missions.

MiG-35 is compatible with Russian and foreign-origin weapons applications and an integrated variety of defensive systems to increase combat survivability. The fighter plane is being marketed globally under the designation MiG-35 (single seat) and MiG-35D (dual seat). MiG Corporation made their first official international MiG-35 presentation during Aero India 2007. MiG-35 Fulcrum-F is an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F).

MiG-35 AESA radar

MiG-35 will be the first Russian aircraft to be fitted with active electronically scanned array radar. The Zhuk-MA's antenna consists of 160 modules, each with four receive-and-transmit modules. It is believed to offer a 160km (85nm) air target detection radius and 300km for surface ships.

Like radar, OLS allows the MiG-35 to detect targets and aim weapon systems. But, unlike radar, OLS has no emissions, meaning it cannot be detected.

OLS works like a human eye by getting the picture and later analysing it. NII PP, the federal space agency science and research institute's engineers have chosen more short-wave bands for the matrix, which has increased sensitivity of the complex several times and has increased detection range.

"MiG-35 is a new export variant that combines the modern systems of the MiG-29M2 with an AESA radar."

The OLS on the MiG-35 is considered to help pilots to spot even the USAF's stealth planes. OLS includes a complex of powerful optics with IR vision that makes it impossible for any plane to hide.

OLS solves the problem of blurred vision. At speed, each piece of dust can cause harm to the glass of the OLS. The new OLS uses leuco-sapphire, the next-hardest material after artificial diamonds, making the lifetime for such glass much longer. According to NII PP engineers, leuco-sapphire is clear for all the OLS emissions and doesn't corrupt the signal, an important factor for the optical systems.

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MiG-35 engines

The MiG-35 is powered by two RD-33MKBs that can be fitted with KliVT swivel-nozzles and a thrust vectoring control (TVC) system. The MiG-35's combination of TVC and advanced missile-warning sensors gives it the edge during combat.

RD-33 engines generate 7% more power compared to the baseline model due to the modern materials that go into the manufacturing of the cooled blades. The engines provide a higher-than-average thrust of 9,000kgf. RD-33 engines are smokeless and include systems that reduce infrared and optical visibility. The engines may be fitted with vectored-thrust nozzles, which would result in an improvement in combat efficiency.

Russia's developmental work on thrust vectoring started in 1980s. The Sukhoi and Saturn / Lyulka engine design bureaus led the way, and their efforts resulted in the Su-30 MKI aircraft. The MiG and Klimov engine bureaus began their work in the field of thrust vector engines a little later and aimed at all-aspect thrust vectoring, as opposed to Sukhoi / Saturn's two dimensional (horizontal / vertical) vectoring.

Klimov achieved all-aspect vectoring with the aid of three hydraulic actuators that deflect the nozzles, and are mounted at 120A° intervals around the engine nacelle. This enabled MiG-35 to fly at very low speeds without angle-of-attack limitations, and ensured that it will also remain controllable in zero-speed and 'negative-speed' (tail-forward) areas for sustained periods.

Manoeuvrability

The MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter, which was shown for the first time in August 2005 during the MAKS Air Show outside Moscow. The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring control engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior manoeuvrability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air-to-air engagements.

The MiG-35 presents super-manoeuvrability, a capability to fly at supercritical angles of attack at increased level of sustained and available g-loads and high turn-angle rate, which requires a greater thrust-to-weight ratio and improved wing aerodynamic efficiency.

"The MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter."

MiG-35 weapons

The aircraft's suite of guided weapons includes Kh-31A anti-ship missiles with active radar seekers, the Kh-31P anti-radar missiles, Kh-29TE missiles and KAB-500Kr TV-guided bombs. Added, when equipped with an external optical / laser targeting pod, the fighter can use the Kh-29L air-to-surface missiles and KAB-500L laser-guided bombs. These weapons will allow the aircraft to engage aerial and land targets.

Italy-based Elettronica signed an agreement with Mikoyan in 2007 to support in incorporating ELT/568(V)2 self-protection jammer in the MiG-35. The jammer renders self defence from radar controlled anti-aircraft artillery.

Refuelling

An addition of a strap-on tank behind the cockpit has allowed MiG-35 to have a higher internal fuel capacity of 950l. The capacity of the external fuel tank suspended under the fuselage has increased up to 2,000l. Ferry range with three external fuel tanks has also been increased, rising to 3,100km, and with one in-flight refuelling the range will be 5,400km.

The fuel management system has also been digitised, and includes a new digital fuel metering system.

Aero India 2007 launch

The final version of MiG-35 was displayed for the first time at Aero India 2007. The prototype of the MiG-35 had been shown to the public in 2005 at air shows in Russia and the UK. MiG-35 is a contender to the Eurofighter Typhoon, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, JAS 39 Gripen and F-16 Falcon for the bid of more than 126 multirole combat aircraft worth $10bn to be procured by the Indian Air Force in Indian MRCA competition.

Mikoyan will commence production of the MiG-35 fighter at the Sokol aviation plant in Russia in 2013 or 2014 as part of the bid.

Performance

The MiG-35 can climb at the rate of 330m/s. Its maximum speed is 2,400km/h. The normal and ferry range of the aircraft are 2,000km and 3,100km respectively. The service ceiling is 17,500m. The aircraft weighs around 11,000kg and its maximum take-off weight is 29,700kg.

The MiG-35's combination of TVC and advanced missile-warning sensors gives it the edge during combat.

MiG-35 offers a 160km (85nm) air target detection radius and 300km for surface ships.

MiG-35 is compatible with Russian and foreign-origin weapons applications and an integrated variety of defensive systems to increase combat survivability.

MiG-35 will be the first Russian aircraft to be fitted with active electronically scanned array radar. The Zhuk-MA's antenna consists of 160 modules, each with four receive-and-transmit modules.
 
.
Analysts are generally skeptical at present of reports Pakistan and Russia are engaged in negotiations for the delivery of a number of Su-35 Flanker E fighter aircraft, though there is a potential requirement for such a heavy fighter.

The reports, first published in Russian media, cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying both sides were negotiating for the delivery of an unspecified number of Su-35 jets alongside the Mi-35M "Hind E" helicopter gunships that have recently been agreed upon.

However, no word on any such negotiations was received from the Ministry of Defence Production in Pakistan when asked for comment on the issue. The agency also handles acquisition.

Experts are generally skeptical of any Su-35 being acquired by Pakistan.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said he "would be most surprised if there were to be any arrangement for provision of Su-35s."

"The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift," Cloughley said.

Though India is actively seeking to diversify its source of equipment from reliance on Russia, and the latter is seeking a new customer that includes limited defense sales to Pakistan, the Indo-Russian relationship is still very strong as evidenced by the co-development of the next generation PAK-FA stealth aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Pakistani Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail is also unconvinced at present that negotiations for the Su-35 are actually underway.

"To me it seems more like an offer by the Russians, more than anything else," he said.

Many analysts have considered the current Pakistani plan to carry on investing in the JF-17 Thunder program, and acquire further new or surplus F-16s if possible, to be the optimal way of modernizing its air power as well as reducing combat types. A role for such a heavy fighter as the Su-35 has not generally been envisioned.

However, Tufail says there is a possible need for something in this class on two accounts: diversification and to support naval operations.

The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view)," he said. "Given the changing geo-politics and the Chinese investment whose trade terminus is Gwadar, there is definitely going to be a need for a long-range fighter. So essentially, I see it as a guarantor of maritime security as far as the airspace is concerned."

Pakistan has never operated a twin-engine fighter aircraft, but Tufail says this has been a shortcoming.

"This has been a yawning gap in [the air force's] capabilities. These fighters would also allow unhindered patrolling by the naval [long range maritime patrol aircraft], as well as providing top cover to our fleet at sea," he said.

He does not see this as a departure from the established defense posture, but recognition of an existing shortcoming.

"All of this may sound like a sudden switch from continental strategy to a maritime one, but it is high time that we paid serious attention to this aspect in the fast changing geopolitical scenario."

Pakistan's air power over the Arabian Sea already received a boost this month when No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron based in Karachi was re-equipped September 6 with the JF-17 Block II after surrendering its Chengdu F-7P fighters.

Speaking at the time, Tufail said this was overdue: "The re-equipment of [No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron] was due as they had the oldest lot of F-7s. The JF-17 was the obvious replacement."

However, he did not believe it would take over the anti-shipping strike role from the Mirage 5, which he flew during his air force career, even though the JF-17 can carry the C-802A/CSS-N-8 Saccade or the supersonic CM-400AKG.

"This, however, does not necessarily imply that it will immediately take over the maritime attack role. The Mirage-5PA2/3 is still a capable aircraft, though long in the tooth by now. Most likely, the replacement of these Mirages would have a maritime role, so it could be a couple of years before we see a newer capability," he said.

Whether that replacement is the Su-35, however, remains to be seen.

Analysts Skeptical Over Pakistan-Russia Su-35 Negotiations

Where are the 150 units of JF-17 Thunders ? Its the end of 2015 and we only raised Three Combat Squadrons.
 
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