Analysts: Navy brass view F-35C's stealth as overrated ; US Navy cuts F-35C buy by one-third

[F-22Raptor]

Stealth is a necessity in fighter aircraft today due to advanced integrated air defense systems which have proliferated throughout the world. While I believe the F-35s stealth to be adequate, what truly separates it from other aircraft is its highly advanced avionics and sensors, even superior to the F-22. The F-35 can act as a forward sensor node, with advanced command and control, and can suck in huge amounts of information and disperse that to other aircraft and surface ships. It's also believed to have potent electronic and cyber attack capabilities.

I would rather defer the issue of stealth to the Air Force since they are the ones with 30+ years of experience with it, and the Navy has almost none, but if the Navy would rather focus its efforts on electronic attack and standoff weaponry then you won't see me complaining. It will only make us a more diverse/capable fighting force.

 

[jhungary]

Stealth is a necessity in fighter aircraft today due to advanced integrated air defense systems which have proliferated throughout the world. While I believe the F-35s stealth to be adequate, what truly separates it from other aircraft is its highly advanced avionics and sensors, even superior to the F-22. The F-35 can act as a forward sensor node, with advanced command and control, and can suck in huge amounts of information and disperse that to other aircraft and surface ships. It's also believed to have potent electronic and cyber attack capabilities.

I would rather defer the issue of stealth to the Air Force since they are the ones with 30+ years of experience with it, and the Navy has almost none, but if the Navy would rather focus its efforts on electronic attack and standoff weaponry then you won't see me complaining. It will only make us a more diverse/capable fighting force.

it is a dilemma, you can put stealth fighter in your AO but as long as you can detect the carrier (Nitmiz class is quite hard to miss) You can detect stealth fighter by secondary tracking. That would defeat the purpose of stealth IMO.

But Stealth is quite needed today for forward penetration mission, when you look at the modern combine air defence network, its quite hard for an Navy to do a primary penetration without stealth, your survival chance will increase a lot.

The solution? Built a stealth Carrier lol...If thats not possible, you probably wise to use ECM plane to mask your force in your AO until they are out of track, then one can ask, why not use ECM All the way?

 

[N/A]

4 and 4.5 gen fighter jets were the best...new jets offer the same performance,sometimes less, as the 4.5 gen
5th and 6th are just a waste of money. technology helps in war but its the man that ultimately wins it

 

[Viper0011.]

Lies!! All lies!!!

If Russia and China are developing stealth aircraft, why should it be useless?

He is correct. The concept of Stealth becomes useless in naval warfare. The -35 has certain limitation of weight and speed when it comes to comparing with newer unmanned or even the -18. Plus, the newer Naval ships (Certainly the entire USN) uses AESA all over, with multi-tiered advance sensors, which means, stealth isn't as useful as it is in a normal airspace.

The -35 holds limited weapons inside its internal weapon's bay. When you put external weapons on, and in the naval scenario, the RCS will increase obviously. So I agree, the Navy should invest in the future systems like the unmanned larger platforms, and use -18's advance versions till then.

USAF will always have an edge over the globe by using the Hi-Lo combination of -22 and the JSF. The -22 can hands down establish air supremacy over any enemy territory.

 

[Sine Nomine]

He is correct. The concept of Stealth becomes useless in naval warfare. The -35 has certain limitation of weight and speed when it comes to comparing with newer unmanned or even the -18. Plus, the newer Naval ships (Certainly the entire USN) uses AESA all over, with multi-tiered advance sensors, which means, stealth isn't as useful as it is in a normal airspace.

The -35 holds limited weapons inside its internal weapon's bay. When you put external weapons on, and in the naval scenario, the RCS will increase obviously. So I agree, the Navy should invest in the future systems like the unmanned larger platforms, and use -18's advance versions till then.

USAF will always have an edge over the globe by using the Hi-Lo combination of -22 and the JSF. The -22 can hands down establish air supremacy over any enemy territory.

In simple words it is costly game to maintain a F-35 aboard carrier,also US next foes are not Afghanistan or Iraq.

 

[Indian Patriot]

For all the talk about F-35, it is stil beset with problems.

P.S. - Can anybody explain the concept of "6th generation" in simple terms?

 

[janon]

Navy sensors can easily detect stealth aircraft, it knows the limitations of stealth at sea, it killed the concept of stealth at sea.

Which sensors? And if so, why don't the other services (especially the AF) have them?

 

[Beast]

Lies!! All lies!!!

If Russia and China are developing stealth aircraft, why should it be useless?

lol.. Please do not compare apple to orange. Lets take a good look at F-35 belly and see for yourself how stealthy it is.

While China develop J-20 becos its stealth feature is far superior than F-35.

But that does not mean US is bad aircraft designer. Its more to do with stupid decision to make F-35 an aircraft for 3 services of USMC, USN and USAF that restrict making it more stealthy due to the need of thrust vector for short take off. They shall have go for China J-31 twin engine design that allows a clean belly to improve stealthiness.

 

[Indian Patriot]

A lot of Americans will hate my post but F-35 is more a face saving exercise then anything of practical value. It has been a colossal waste of time and money.

 

[Oldman1]

lol.. Please do not compare apple to orange. Lets take a good look at F-35 belly and see for yourself how stealthy it is.
View attachment 197577

While China develop J-20 becos its stealth feature is far superior than F-35.
View attachment 197578

But that does not mean US is bad aircraft designer. Its more to do with stupid decision to make F-35 an aircraft for 3 services of USMC, USN and USAF that restrict making it more stealthy due to the need of thrust vector for short take off. They shall have go for China J-31 twin engine design that allows a clean belly to improve stealthiness.

You ever seen a B-2 bomber? It ain't exactly all flat.

 

[gambit]

You guys COMPLETELY misunderstood what the CNO meant.

I dare say that none here have seen what a disappearing jet fighter look like on a radar scope, and it was an F-16, arguably among the top five most lethal, if not the most lethal, fighter in the air today, that pulled that disappearing act. Then when I mentally put myself in an enemy's cockpit, it was the most scary shit I have ever seen and felt. Put yourself in a soldier's combat boots slowly making your way across a field, knowing that in the woods yonder, there is at least one enemy sniper in there somewhere. It is that scary from a pilot's perspective.

Here is the unique thing about radar 'stealth' that gave people what I believe to be false hope, especially among those who wish nothing but the worst for the US...

When someone put a gun into an aircraft, the only solution was another gun in another aircraft.

When someone put a large engine into a fighter, the only solution was another fighter with at least an equally powerful engine.

When someone fielded a jet fighter, the only solution was another jet fighter.

When someone developed the air-air missile that if hit will all but guarantee a kill, the only solution was another fighter armed with air-air missile.

And so on...Am sure people get the big picture.

What make radar 'stealth' unique is that there is a possibility that another radar 'stealth' fighter is NOT needed. Instead, I just need to develop a better radar. This is what Admiral Greenert was talking about.

I have said this many times before here: In radar detection, nothing is invisible.

The radar sees all, but that is also the problem, that the radar really sees all. With every sweep, anything that is in the beam will be seen by the radar. The problem is the data extraction from the fact that the radar sees all. Radar 'stealth' make data extraction difficult, but not impossible, to pull the 'stealth' fighter from the EM shadows and that was Greenert's point.

Given how much it cost to develop a 'stealth' fighter, some people convinced themselves to the (false) hope that it is easier and cheaper to develop a more powerful radar. This is like despite being beaten by the ME-262, the US continued to develop more powerful piston engines running larger and larger propellers.

One day, someone other than US will develop a radar with enough sophisticated data processing to pull the F-22 out of the EM shadows, but by that time, we will have something better than the F-22 and you can bet your country's future on that. So to all those whose countries are struggling with what to do with the American 'stealth' fighters, laugh all you want, we are flying jet fighters while your countries are building bigger prop jobbers.

 

[KAL-EL]

F-22 was production was stopped way to early in my opinion. At least another 100 or so should have been made.

 

[SipahSalar]

F-22 was production was stopped way to early in my opinion. At least another 100 or so should have been made.

Why 100? Why not 200? There simply wasn't any money. You should listen to Mccain's speech on the f-22.

 

[KAL-EL]

Why 100? Why not 200? There simply wasn't any money. You should listen to Mccain's speech on the f-22.

I believe he called them "hanger queens" if I remember correctly. I know they were extremely costly. Not saying the production line should have remained active indefinitely. Would just rather have had a few more of them made and ready for action against belligerence and a few other various reasons.

 

[Penguin]

Navy Plans for Fighter to Replace the F/A-18 Hornet in 2030s
by Kris Osborn on November 20, 2014

The Navy is beginning to work on a a next-generation carrier-launched fighter jet to replace the existing F/A-18 Super Hornet and Growler aircraft by 2030 and supplement the F-35C the Pentagon is still developing, service officials said.

One analyst said if Navy F/A-XX developers seek to engineer a sixth-generation aircraft, they will likely explore a range of next-generation technologies such as maximum sensor connectivity, super cruise ability and an aircraft with electronically configured “smart skins.”
Maximum connectivity would mean massively increased communications and sensor technology such as having an ability to achieve real-time connectivity with satellites, other aircraft and anything that could provide relevant battlefield information, said Richard Aboulafia, vice-president of analysis at the Teal Group, a Va.-based consultancy.

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/11/20/navy-plans-for-fighter-to-replace-the-fa-18-hornet-in-2030s/#ixzz3T4uixw9W
Defense.org

Boeing displays concepts for F/A-18E/F replacement - 5/7/2010 - Flight Global

F/A-XX Archives - USNI News