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Analysis: Why is Israel unilaterally going to withdraw from Gaza?

The thing people need to do is get out of the conspiracy theories, Israel does not own America, the US is the senior partner in this relationship despite the extraordinary leeway they provide Israel (getting away with killing their sailors). The political dispensation in America sees Israel as the ultimate strategic asset in the region, that's all there is to it, nothing else. And so they will continue to support it in a bipartisan manner. Its not some sinister "elders of Zion" plot, its the fact that the US is willing to do whatever it takes to secure what it VIEWS to be its interest.

You sound like a more balanced person from India on this conflict--kind of uncommon in this forum.

But you are wrong on the Israeli-American relationship! Please read Mearseimer & Walt's 'The Israel Lobby'. They are distinguished professors and their work is considered seminal for their insight and academic value. They argue that:
1) Even in 1948 Israelis were better equipped than the Bedouin armies they fought.
2) Israel may have been of strategic importance during the Cold War but that factor is long gone
3) It is the Israeli Lobby which can influence the US foreign policy: Not many Congressmen/Senators or hopeful Congressmen/Senators are secure enough to take anti-Israel stand. They live in mortal danger of losing their public image and even their official seat should the Lobby decides to go against them. There have been primaries where anti-Israel candidates were made to lose by the influx of money funded by the Lobby. So why would they care for a far-off conflict to risk themselves?

As @Hazzy997 says above, Israel wants the land in the W. Bank! And they want the prime land. Good land. Not desert. As I see their game, they will eventually gobble up most of the good W.Bank land and then offer a Palestinian State in a worthless land--even may offer a land-swap deal by giving up some desert. Israelis want to repeat the European's conquest of North America. Too bad, Israelis can't do it the way the Europeans did because even America wouldn't tolerate that kind of mass killing and expulsion. So Israelis are going slow--slowly depriving Palestinians of a chance of a viable state.
 
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You sound like a more balanced person from India on this conflict--kind of uncommon in this forum.

But you are wrong on the Israeli-American relationship! Please read Mearseimer & Walt's 'The Israel Lobby'. They are distinguished professors and their work is considered seminal for their insight and academic value. They argue that:
1) Even in 1948 Israelis were better equipped than the Bedouin armies they fought.
2) Israel may have been of strategic importance during the Cold War but that factor is long gone
3) It is the Israeli Lobby which can influence the US foreign policy: Not many Congressmen/Senators or hopeful Congressmen/Senators are secure enough to take anti-Israel stand. They live in mortal danger of losing their public image and even their official seat should the Lobby decides to go against them. There have been primaries where anti-Israel candidates were made to lose by the influx of money funded by the Lobby. So why would they care for a far-off conflict to risk themselves?

As @Hazzy997 says above, Israel wants the land in the W. Bank! And they want the prime land. Good land. Not desert. As I see their game, they will eventually gobble up most of the good W.Bank land and then offer a Palestinian State in a worthless land--even may offer a land-swap deal by giving up some desert. Israelis want to repeat the European's conquest of North America. Too bad, Israelis can't do it the way the Europeans did because even America wouldn't tolerate that kind of mass killing and expulsion. So Israelis are going slow--slowly depriving Palestinians of a chance of a viable state.

The lobbying is powerful, yes, but it does not detract from the fact that America is the senior partner.

When it really matters, when push comes to shove, the US happily steps on Israeli aspirations (denial of F-22, Israel seriously and substantively lobbied for it). Continued military support to Arab states. Willingness to talk to Iran and only demand the dismantling of their enrichment capacity (as opposed to the Israeli demand for complete confiscation of all nuclear tech including civilian power generation tech, in fact Bibi has thrown so many hissy fits about this that it can't even be counted now).

That is why I said, you need to talk to the Americans, and for that the regional rulers need to unite for the limited purpose of creating a sovereign Palestinian state.
 
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@Dillinger ,
No, denial of sale of some air-crafts and supplying arms to some tooth-less (and 'moderate') Arab govts doesn't make America the 'senior' partner. America's commercial interests and its 'image' in a billion+ Muslim world will be greatly enhanced if America influences Israel enough to enforce a 'just' peace. That no sitting American leadership can--only when they leave power we have the Zbig and Carters.
Ultimately, the Lobby has almost all American leadership by the balls and the Lobby even brags about it.
 
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Is there no way of getting the children out? Why isn't Egypt at least allowing the children and women to flee into their territory, surely the Arabs can provide enough funds to setup appropriate camps, this is disregarding any bellyaching of how refugees drain resources etc.

No, you can't get them our when all borders are closed. But, neither would we give Israel a green light to carpet bomb our territory. Palestinian resistance resistance fighters are crowns on our head. We are all united in our struggle for self determination. What needs to happen from the Arabs is an immediate air campaign against Israel destroying Israeli army's infrastructure.
 
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No, you can't get them our when all borders are closed. But, neither would we give Israel a green light to carpet bomb our territory. Palestinian resistance resistance fighters are crowns on our head. We are all united in our struggle for self determination. What needs to happen from the Arabs is an immediate air campaign against Israel destroying Israeli army's infrastructure.

Immediate air campaign?

Please tell me, despite all the abuses that will probably get heaped on me, that you know Al Saud's orientation?

You would be lucky if their jets (if they could actually enter Israeli airspace) dropped leaflets politely asking the Israeli government to stop the strikes.
 
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Immediate air campaign?

Please tell me, despite all the abuses that will probably get heaped on me, that you know Al Saud's orientation?

You would be lucky if their jets (if they could actually enter Israeli airspace) dropped leaflets politely asking the Israeli government to stop the strikes.

I have heard rumors that the family is Jewish. Does that have any truth to it?

I know exactly that. I'm saying hypothetically that is what is needed. Of course even non-Arabs know very well Arab governments won't do anything. It has reached an embarrassing level.
 
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I have heard rumors that the family is Jewish. Does that have any truth to it?

I know exactly that. I'm saying hypothetically that is what is needed. Of course even non-Arabs know very well Arab governments won't do anything. It has reached an embarrassing level.

Dunno about them being of Jewish descent, seems unlikely, hell its likely that a lot of Palestinians may have been Jews say 2000 years ago, nor do I think that religion even falls into the consideration for the Arab states beyond perhaps Hamas's past affiliation with Shia Iran or Hezbollah's involvement in the conflict.

What I do know is that they could have played a part, an important part in a lasting peace and settlement.

At the end of the day it does not substantively matter if India, Pakistan, China or say Vietnam support Palestine or vehemently oppose it, the folks on the ground have the influence, the rulers in the region along with the US have real power to move things. Sadly I, in my personal capacity, do not see that happening anytime soon.
 
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Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. First it was the rocket now is the tunnels. These Jews always come out with something to do their dirty jobs. The conflict in Palestine is integral for Israeli expansion into Palestine for if there were no "ongoing conflict" Israel would not be able to seize more Palestinian land and kill Palestinian people on an ongoing basis. While the conflict exists Israel is in the position to steal more Palestinian land .The conflict "works for Israel".They take a bit of flack for its actions but then all goes quiet again and Israel gains more land while forcing out its indigenous populace
 
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At the end of the day it does not substantively matter if India, Pakistan, China or say Vietnam support Palestine or vehemently oppose it, the folks on the ground have the influence, the rulers in the region along with the US have real power to move things. Sadly I, in my personal capacity, do not see that happening anytime soon.

This is the sad truth. We can only hope that the influential people gain some rationality or even humanity. If they don't, it could actually work against their interests in the future.

Or God will show us a new miracle.
 
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This is the sad truth. We can only hope that the influential people gain some rationality or even humanity. If they don't, it could actually work against their interests in the future.

Or God will show us a new miracle.

I told you, personally I am not holding out much hope.

The current political dispensation in Israel will NEVER agree to a two state solution, they just won't, which means more dead children. To sum it up its depressing.
 
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How Netanyahu Got Snookered
The Moral Universe Will Swing Palestine’s Way
by ANDREW LEVINE
Benjamin Netanyahu isn’t the brightest bulb on the Hanukkah bush, but that doesn’t explain why he concluded that he could benefit himself and Israel by launching another assault on Gaza, the third in six years.

From any remotely plausible point of view, this was a colossal mistake. It is as if resistance fighters in Gaza snookered him into it.

Perhaps they did; they seem shrewd enough, and he seems dumb enough. But “the dead weight of history” and American politics played a role too.

Israel has gotten away with murder – and worse — before; many times.

Also Netanyahu knew that he could count on influential media in the United States and other enabling countries to mislead, misinform and generally promote the Israeli line. He knew too that he has 535 profiles in pusillanimity in his pocket – 100 in the Senate, and 435 more in the House.

Therefore if it seems politically expedient, why wouldn’t he kill again? It was a win-win situation. He would benefit politically and every little bit helps advance the long-term goal he and many other Zionists share — ridding the land of Israel of all but its Jewish inhabitants.

Netanyahu may also have decided that the time is right, now that so many calamitous consequences of the Bush-Obama wars are falling due, and now that the failures (temporary or permanent) of the Arab Spring have destabilized the region.

He may have figured that, with the Near East in turmoil, powers friendly to the Hamas government in Gaza — Qatar, Turkey, Iran, Hezbollah – would be unlikely to lift a finger in Gaza’s defense; while others, hostile to Hamas, could be counted on discreetly to help Israel. This would include Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

The temptation to launch another massacre must therefore have been irresistible.

But pity the poor Bibster. Those pesky Palestinians, the ones sequestered in Gaza, snookered him good.

One would think that with so many Russians and other ex-Soviets in his government, somebody would have straightened him out. Russians know their history. They know how the Soviet Union defeated the invincible German army. They know about Napoleon. They know that the mighty don’t always prevail.

They might have told him what he didn’t learn in high school in the Philadelphia suburbs: that the side aggressed against has an advantage even when it is weaker than the aggressor – if it is willing to pay the price in casualties and suffering.

The strategy is clear: draw the enemy’s army in, then wait them out and wear them down. In a war of attrition, the side that stands its ground, that does not succumb to exhaustion, wins.

The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) will not have to face a Russian winter. But a densely populated “open air prison,” amply provisioned with tunnels and full of desperate people willing to suffer anything to be free from the boot of oppression, works just as well.

What was Netanyahu thinking?

And the vaunted IDF brass; how could they not have seen the trap? Could their arrogance and their contempt for Arabs be that overweening?

Over time, primitive rockets are bound to get better, even without help from outside parties. This is not rocket science; it is common sense.

Netanyahu and the others should have realized too that, even with Hezbollah mired in the Syrian civil war, Gazans could still learn a great deal from them.

Hezbollah defeated the South Lebanon Army, Israel’s proxy, in 2000; six years later, it fought back the IDF itself. They see this as a victory, and not without reason.

Hezbollah is strong on strategy and tactics. For mastering the art of putting unguided missiles to use, and for guidance in building networks of underground tunnels under the unrelenting scrutiny of an occupying power, there is no better teacher.

Did Netanyahu and his generals think that none of this would matter? Could they have thought that in 2014 the Israelis would have as easy a go of it as they had in 2012 and 2008-9?

It is hard to believe, but it looks like they did. They let themselves be snookered into a trap.

Needless to say, the IDF will not meet its Stalingrad in Gaza or anywhere else in the Occupied Territories. The power asymmetry is too great, and when things don’t go well for Israel, the United States is always there to save the day. This has happened before – most conspicuously during the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

But defeat comes in many guises. The United States hasn’t unequivocally won a war since World War II — except against Grenada and Panama. And yet the juggernaut survives, more bloated and deadly than ever.

Israel will not emerge similarly unscathed. It has already been damaged in Gaza, and there are signs of greater trouble ahead.

Hamas – and perhaps also Islamic Jihad and other resistance groups — now have rockets capable of reaching population centers in Israel. They don’t have guidance systems, but this hardly matters.

One fell about a mile away from Ben Gurion Airport. This caused international airlines to cancel flights into and out of Tel Aviv.

This concentrated the minds of Israel’s business elites. The potential blow to Israeli tourism and therefore to the Israeli economy, should a protracted shutdown become necessary, was also too obvious for the corporate media, especially the business press, to ignore.

It is a portent of things to come as Israel loses international support, and as the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) movement gains traction.

Inadvertently, Netanyahu gave solidarity movements around the world a powerful reminder of the power of boycotts and, especially, of sanctions. It is hard to believe that Netanyahu et. al. wanted people reminded.

It is even harder to think they would take a chance on igniting a Third Intifada. The IDF’s savage attack on a UN school where Gazans had taken shelter from Israeli bombs and mortars ignited massive solidarity protests throughout the West Bank. Do the Israelis really think that all the pent-up fury their actions cause can be contained?

A new Intifada would be a nightmare for Israel. Among other things, it could cause the Palestinian Authority (PA) to collapse. This would require the IDF to do its own policing of the lands Israel occupies, and it would force Israel to administer both the West Bank and Gaza directly – without the benefit of generous EU subsidies.

And, worst of all for Israel, it could cause Palestinian Israelis to rise up in solidarity with Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza; twenty percent of the population of Israel is Palestinian.

These Palestinians are citizens of Israel theoretically; they have the right to vote and other political rights. But, by law and custom, they endure countless forms of discrimination. In “the only democracy in the Middle East,” they are second- or third-class citizens.

Israeli politicians are now clamoring to keep anyone from serving in the Knesset who will not swear fidelity to the idea of “a Jewish state.” If they get their way, it is a fair bet that, before long, Arab and other non-Zionist political parties will also be banned. This would spell the end of any semblance of real democracy in Israel.

And it would hasten the time when Israel itself, not just the Occupied Territories, becomes a full-fledged Apartheid state.

Do Netanyahu and the others really want that to happen? Do they want Israel to become an international pariah, facing – and deserving — worldwide opprobrium?

Ironically, this would make Israel what it claims to be: a state on its own in a hostile world, besieged by “existential threats.” The pretense has proven useful to the Zionist cause, but the reality would be catastrophic.

Did Hamas engineer this situation? Or do we owe that to the stupidity of Netanyahu and his colleagues? There is no either/or answer; the evidence suggests they both had a role.

In any case, the fact remains: Netanyahu and the others have led Israel into a trap. If they weren’t deliberately snookered, they might as well have been.

Whatever happens next, the one sure thing is that Palestinians will suffer horrendously – Palestinians in Gaza most of all.

Barack Obama could stop it in a Tel Aviv minute because everything Israel does, it does at the sufferance of the United States. But he won’t, and not just because he is too inclined to remain aloof. From his point of view, there is no percentage in forcing Israel to wage peace.

In any case, Obama has seen to it that the Israel-Palestine conflict now falls under John Kerry’s remit.

Thanks to Israeli intransigence and skullduggery, Kerry just might, by now, be just pissed off enough to do the right thing. Don’t count on that, however. In his heart, Kerry is still a Senator and a Democrat. In other words, he is squarely in the camp of the servile and the base.

No doubt too, he still subscribes to the idea that the Israel lobby is invincible, and therefore that political death awaits any politician who rattles its cage. This is a delusion, the emperor has no clothes; but, unlike the child in the Hans Christian Anderson fable, no American politician yet has found the courage to declare this simple truth.

Nevertheless, miracles happen; Kerry might still somehow recover his Winter Soldier self. But even were he to bolt, Palestinian suffering would go on. Netanyahu could still rely on American inertia. And, if that isn’t enough, he could count on the National Security Council to keep up America’s tradition of obeisance to the Israeli state, and complicity in its crimes.

From that quarter, Deputy National Security Advisor Tony Blinken has so far been the most up front. The man sounds as if he gets his talking points straight from the Israeli embassy. If he is not actually on their payroll, then he is a fool; he is that blatant.

But, of course, one could say the same about nearly every pundit who gets to mouth off in mainstream media.

And so, the suffering goes on.

Nevertheless, the Palestinian people will survive.

The vast majority of Israelis these days won’t like that one bit; and neither will Americans and others who have been deluded into accepting the Israeli narrative. But it is an inexorable fact.

As a modern day Friedrich Nietzsche might say: whatever does not annihilate them, strengthens them.

And, as a modern day Martin Luther King might then add: the arc of the moral universe will, in time, swing Palestine’s way. Inasmuch as it bends towards justice, how could it not?

ANDREW LEVINE is a Senior Scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, the author most recently of THE AMERICAN IDEOLOGY (Routledge) and POLITICAL KEY WORDS (Blackwell) as well as of many other books and articles in political philosophy. His most recent book is In Bad Faith: What’s Wrong With the Opium of the People. He was a Professor (philosophy) at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and a Research Professor (philosophy) at the University of Maryland-College Park. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press).
 
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What is Netanyahu trying to pull here? Another Poroshenko where war lasts years and years? :disagree:
 
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Is there no way of getting the children out? Why isn't Egypt at least allowing the children and women to flee into their territory, surely the Arabs can provide enough funds to setup appropriate camps, this is disregarding any bellyaching of how refugees drain resources etc.

Everyone parties in Palestine then leaves. No one wants to stay back and clean up the mess.
 
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If you truly follow that site you would have noticed i had 1(ONE) post in the escalation in Gaza thread and really don't engage with Israeli members that often.Not that engaging them would be wrong,it's just that your little narative is wrong,that's all.But,if you like to spin in it that way,be my guest.

Only time will tell but i consider that Hamas must go for peace to occur,no Israeli politician will negociate with them ,it will be suicide at home.That being said,Israel must let the Palestinians know that if Hamas is gone self determination is around the corner.Without that the peace process is an illussion.

Your last three words are the only truth you can consider; The peace process is an illusion, be it with Hamas or without. I do not know if you were born yesterday but for the last 60 years it has been an illusive tactic by Usrael to keep the statuquo and the fait accompli.
 
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Yes, I think eventually the goal is to clear out Gaza first, since Hamas gives them a pretext while the PA is relatively more connected to the international organisations, this (as counter intuitive as it sounds given that Hamas does have a limited capacity to put up armed resistance and fight) makes Hamas and by extension Gaza the softer target. Add to that Al Sisi in Egypt and the willingness of the ME to do nothing beyond aid dollars and statements gives Bibi a good opportunity. He can't do it in one go though, he might argue that he needs greater military presence (as in on the ground and sustained/permanent) within Gaza to ensure his state's "security", thereby paving the way for enabling a future push. Just an opinion of mine, but I think it might bare out.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."

-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.
http://monabaker.com/quotes.htm
The Middle East Conflict: Zionist Quotes

Why not have a 2 states solution? Like how America and Canada are 2 states considering how Americans and Canadians can't seem to stand each other.
Kind of, you can't live with them and you can't live without them.
 
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