American imperialism and ruthlessness masquerading as freedom and democracy.

[gambit]

Yeah but here we are talking about America, As a Country/Super power not a ideology like Communism or Religious systems. Those are two separate things and topics.

It may sound strange, but while yes, that a country and its foundation ideology are distinct, they are inseparable, meaning if you discuss one, you WILL or MUST inevitably discuss the other. As I have often said in the past, ideas needs the human agency to survive and thrive, and a country is the largest and grandest agency any idea can have. We cannot discuss fascism and/or Nazism without thinking of and inevitably talking about Germany, no matter how long ago that dark part of Germany's history. To be fair, we cannot discuss slavery without thinking of and inevitably talking about the US and their Civil War. We cannot discuss Christianity without thinking of and inevitably talking about the Catholic Church, of the good and the bad. In short, we cannot discuss any idea and understand its compelling attractiveness unless we talk about the people that follows it.

Distinct, but inseparable. Prove me wrong.

Well what you have discuss with others in this thread is something I can not comment, but On this particular part of your post, you really sugar coated brutality with Policy errors, those errors costed thousands of lives in direct confrontations and indirect civil unrest.

Not sugarcoating. If you drive and hit a pedestrian, two things: either malice or accident. Which is it?

As for the premises that USA can not be evil because people wants to come here, so I think its wrong, majority of USA immigration revolves around the economic reasons, people from all over the world comes to USA for better future and opportunities, now one can argue that their own countries are f'd up by America or its policies directly or indirectly, that's a whole another topic. Than you have people who immigrated due to their families/marriages, that has nothing to do with American foreign Policy or America been righteous. And than you have those who come here as Students/work of course that covers my point about the economic immigration, and last are those who come to USA as asylum seekers because things are not good in their countries, but just because their countries are bad doesn't make America right, right ? There might be some people who come here because they actually consider that America is the last/only righteous nation on earth.

Ref the highlighted, that is why no one answered my question of why John Oliver is a US citizen. John Oliver is an emigre, not just an immigrant. Oliver and his fellow celebs are not statistical outliers if we use economic needs as main reason to come to the US. There are many emigres whose wealth would be the equivalent of the American 'upper middle class', which would make them 'elites' back in their home countries, and yet they chose America. These people are not illiterate rubes. They were educated enough from their birth countries to know how to research the US and reason out why should they emigrate, and they did.

Personally I stand by my point that America is neither all evil nor all good,...

Who said anything about 'all good'? That means perfect and I never said America is perfect. I said America is great. If you are perfect, you cannot be great. You are perfect, like God. Like it or not, America, no different than all the countries in the world, is ever on a sliding scale. The US is a great country, and that is good enough for me and many people, now and in the future.

I admire a lot of things about America since I came here 2 years ago, and the list a long one. On the other hand I dislike many American policies but than who am I to have a say in all that ? I am not even American citizen and even If i was it won't matter. America does and will keep doing what's best in its interest even if it means siding with scums of human race or oppressors like India or Israel, so Justice/Liberty/Equality/Freedom loses its air when it comes to those USA allies and their brutality,...

We may evangelize that certain rights are 'universal' and 'God given', but we also know the application of certain high minded principles are limited to within our borders. Am not talking about the legality of them but about knowing that not everyone believe that anything can be 'universal' or transcends The State. In China, nothing is allowed to be even perceived as greater than The State, or specifically The CPC. So if we know that in many geopolitical situations, there are actors that obviously do not share our values, what choice do we have if we want to achieve certain shared geopolitical goals?

But the fact that YOU are in the US means those geopolitical expediencies do not matter much. They are more than six degrees of separation from your daily lives. It means you can comfortably criticize the US on the moral plane without experiencing any consequences on the practical plane, so you can still feel good about yourself.

Justice, Liberty, Equality, and Freedom are very important should you ever have any encounter with the law. You diminish them outside the borders but inflate them inside precisely because they are applicable inside.

...to me personally they (America) has failed in this particular regard where they did not stood for the values they preach,...

Then ask yourself how important are those values that according to you, America failed. Are those values important enough that failure to live up to their standards would compel you to leave for your birth country? Am not asking to be mean spirited. Americans, no matter where they go, inevitably carries their country's historical baggage. On the other hand, as a non-citizen, you can say "I am <whatever>" and instantly you are removed from America in their minds no matter how long you have lived in America. So why not leave if America's foreign policies are so morally abhorrent? It is not a 'troll' question but a seriously moral one.

 

[Foinikas]

The heck did you find that Wolverine reading figure?

 

[BHAN85]

War is always a ugly thing, no matter the kind of regime that it does.

The saddest about Afghanistan war is that was absolutely useless and based in a wide know lie by everybody: 911 American self attacks.

They didnt need to do it.

I think USA wont try to do a stupid thing like that again. Now smart banksters control well USA state beast, and they can just print money to keep dumbass of military industrial complex happy.

And I think the evilness and cowardice was much higher in all "allies" supporting that war than USA state itself.

 

[VCheng]

The saddest about Afghanistan war is that was absolutely useless and based in a wide know lie by everybody: 911 American self attacks.

Oh right. Please tell us more.

 

[R Wing]

So when will people stop coming to America?

And you relate the economic opportunities available in the US domestically to its hegemonic hypocrisy abroad based on.............?

Two things can be true at once, I'm guessing. There is great economic opportunity to be found in the US... and the US has used the freedom/democracy card to further its interests pretty ruthlessly around the globe. I don't see what's so surprising or shocking about this. Almost any country would if it was the sole superpower.

The real clowns are those who fall for the liberalism rhetoric, both in and outside the 'blob.' The type of people who forget about America's liberating mission when it comes to Israel-occupied Palestine or Indian-occupied Kashmir --- or when the US is selling billions in advanced weaponry to Gulf monarchies while claiming to be all about spreading democracy. It might have been cute, if it wasn't so violent.

 

[VCheng]

Almost any country would if it was the sole superpower.

Superpower or not, all countries play by the same rules of international geopolitics. Some play it better than others, of course, but that is no reason to get upset.

 

[R Wing]

Superpower or not, all countries play by the same rules of international geopolitics. Some play it better than others, of course, but that is no reason to get upset.

Actually, there are some countries that don't play by those rules. For example, Pakistan has no clue how to actually deter India and instead thinks appeasement will work! Haha, we are always the exception, and that's why we tend to get screwed.

Clearly, nobody has ever studied realist IR theory in our corridors of power --- or perhaps it's just easier to apply it domestically, which they do quite well.

 

[VCheng]

Actually, there are some countries that don't play by those rules. For example, Pakistan has no clue how to actually deter India and instead thinks appeasement will work! Haha, we are always the exception, and that's why we tend to get screwed.

What you are saying is that Pakistan plays lousily, that is all. The rules remain the same for everyone.

 

[BHAN85]

American empire way of work changed forever in 2008 financial crisis.

Banksters took the power, and they taught dumbshit gentiles a pair of lessons of how rule a superpower.

A stupid thing like Afghanistan war surely wont happen never again.

Oh right. Please tell us more.

One retrospectively relevant aspect of this pilot episode is that the airliner has been hijacked (via remote control of the plane's autopilot) and, by the end, both Byers and his father have boarded the plane to try to stop the hijacking. Through the aid of the other Gunmen, they are able to regain control of the plane and just miss crashing into the World Trade Center with the airliner. This episode aired about six months before the actual September 11 attacks against the World Trade Center later that year.

The Lone Gunmen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[VCheng]

American empire way of work changed forever in 2008 financial crisis.

Banksters took the power, and they taught dumbshit gentiles a pair of lessons of how rule a superpower.

A stupid thing like Afghanistan war surely wont happen never again.

The Lone Gunmen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You like piling it high and deep, don'tcha?

 

[villageidiot]

As I said, most migrants are motivated by the economics of their situation (into which local corruption plays a large part), and not by peace or war. Hence, making trite comments like "soon as you stop bombing their homelands" is utterly useless.

I wouldn't have thought this needed to be said but here it goes.

Most people would agree that peace or war has distinct bearing on local corruption and the economics of their situation

 

[VCheng]

I wouldn't have thought this needed to be said but here it goes.

Most people would agree that peace or war has distinct bearing in the economics of their situation

And most people would be wrong. The number of people with disadvantageous economics by mismanagement, corruption, resource scarcity and overpopulation globally far exceeds those affected by wars.

 

[PakFactor]

What you are saying is that Pakistan plays lousily, that is all. The rules remain the same for everyone.

I often tell people who waste time playing the game to attack the rules and see how far they can bend them. Once you understand it thoroughly, only then can you play, once you play Muhammad Ali's rope-a-dope.

 

[VCheng]

I often tell people who waste time playing the game to attack the rules and see how far they can bend them. Once you understand it thoroughly, only then can you play, once you play Muhammad Ali's rope-a-dope.

This game rewards its best players by giving them ability to bend the rules, that is a nice feature IMO.

 

[villageidiot]

And most people would be wrong. The number of people with disadvantageous economics by mismanagement, corruption, resource scarcity and overpopulation globally far exceeds those affected by wars.

Take your pick of the average shithole African country. Say, Malawi (sorry to any Malawians here, I know it's a bit rich coming from us, right now). I don't recall any scaremongering in western political discourse about Malawians immigrants, I do recall the same about libyan, iraqi and syrian immigrants, countries way better off than Malawi, based on the metrics you mentioned, if not for the fact they they caught the eye of a certain freedom loving country (among others)

Superpower or not, all countries play by the same rules of international geopolitics. Some play it better than others, of course, but that is no reason to get upset.

Same rules whereby 5 particular countries are modern day Olympians, while the rest are liable to get screwed anytime.

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others