American imperialism and ruthlessness masquerading as freedom and democracy.

[KAL-EL]

So anyway…

 

[TheSolution]

These murtads think that that if everyone was wearing miniskirts and there were bars and clubs everywhere, that suddenly there would be the same western economic standards, with skyscrapers popping up everywhere. Its clown logic, driven from a deep sense of insecurity and an inferiority complex. lol

Lmao, I said the exact same thing during an argument with someone that literally wanted to replace the entire culture, politics, literally everything to a copy of America/west.

Like literally take our unique identity that makes us who we are, and replace it all with western culture

These people genuinely think if you aren't a liberal lgbt loving democratic society promoting everything western even if it's degenerate, then you will simply never progress...

The US was socially conservative and considered homosexuality as a mental illness while it was pumping out F-16s, the world's most technologically advanced fighter that is still incredibly capable today!

All we need to do is take beneficial aspects of cultures in specific areas like education and research, get rid of toxic aspects of our own like extreme tribalism. Then develop our individual identity, like our culture/language, further as that's what makes us unique, makes Pakistan as Pakistan. We can still shape our society how we want, we don't need to be a colony of America in every single aspect.

 

[kuge]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1612232723678265345

that is a very old video clip...

 

[jhungary]

As a son of a refugee, I usually don't engage in any topic regarding refugee. But this is probably the MOST ABSURD

Country created their own downfall, not America. People need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Are American big gentle giant? NO. That does not mean anyone can blame everything in America.

If there are war, there WILL be refugee, in fact, refugee present even absent of a war. The matter is, US, along with just about EVERYONE in the world, exploited the world in war. That does not mean the American cause that. Did Russia not exploit the war in the Middle East? How about China in Asia? So weren't these countries all the same guilty of whatever people accuse of American guilty of?

My own mother escape war, not because US invaded Vietnam, but because CHINA invaded Vietnam in 1978, thousand of war refugee displaced because civil war in some country one way or another.

The world is bad, but that is not an excuse your country is shit. If you don't want America, Russia or China to interference with your business, then stop bitching about other and go to work and make your country a better place. Or you can keep bitching about it and you will have an indefinite reason to bitch about, but your live will remain shit.

 

[gambit]

1. The US is an evil country.

2. The US is a good country.

3. People continues to come to the US.

1 + 3 is a conundrum. An instant problem that those who believe in 1 cannot, but more like can never, reconcile. People, at least upon initial instinct, recognize that there is something 'off' about it. It is like a woman know there is a pimp in the neighborhood and went to work for him as a prostitute anyway. She endures a slavery-like existence and the odd part is that she knows her fate even BEFORE she went to work for him. So for those who believe the US is an 'evil' country, either they are too dense to know the 'nuances' on how to assess countries, people, geopolitics, culture, and psychology, or that the statement is wrong immediately at face value.

1 + 2 is consistent. You do not have to be perfect to be good. You just have to be better. In the world that full of imperfections, how would anyone make that calculation, especially when there are no standards in the first place? The problem for those who believe that the US is an 'evil' country is that people make that calculus all the time and they do it INDEPENDENT of these pseudo intellectual critics who are always eager to use the word 'nuance' in their critiques of the US. Why did John Oliver, already successful in Britain, became a US citizen? Not because Hollywood raised his contract salary by %X dollars if become a US citizen. If you want to look at patriotism, you would look at the redneck South, not Hollywood. Another Briton, Steve Hilton, also became US citizen and went to work for Fox News. Two politicos with opposite views but shares one common opinion: that the US is worthy of their allegiance.

The word 'nuance' is code for "I am too intellectually lazy or deficient to flesh out the issue on my own so with that word I can accuse you of being stupid if you disagree".

 

[khansaheeb]

So when will people stop coming to America?

What a Nazi type answer, wtf man are you type who shoots his family and then himself? That is the trend in US at the moment.

 

[Genghis khan1]

In Engineering, you solve problems in reverse. If there is a problem, you triage, put on bandages to stop the bleeding, then you work back to the root cause(s).

Saying 'The US is an evil country' is a root cause statement. But people keep coming to the US is a band-aid problem. As long as people keep coming to the US, you will never be able to fix the root cause. Like I said earlier that immigration/emigration is ultimately a POLITICAL statement, and a positive one at that, immigration/emigration to the US contradict the root cause statement. Immigration/emigration is reality. The root cause statement is speculative, interpretive, or even nebulous. The immigrant/emigre may not even like the US, but his current situation is so dire that he feels he has no choice but to jump the fence into the US, thereby being a contributor to the economic and political power of the country that he does not like or even hate.

So what the Engineer has to do is somehow do more than just saying 'The US is an evil country' because that root cause statement is not working, either because it is false or far too ineffective. A scientist came to the US and all his work is credited to the US, not his birth country, and he knows this is true, and yet he willingly jumped the fence. Is the US not evil enough for him? Or maybe he grasped the nuances of his actions and the 'evil' claim better than the pseudo intellectual critics?

I don’t think anyone who really hates US even applies for US visa. Those outside can have their opinions. You can have yours, you can hate on China. Russia or sheiks of Dubai and still visit them, work there and nobody gives a sh!t. Now just cause someone has difference of opinion on current US policies doesn’t make them a hater. Political commentators do that all the time. It’s called 1st amendment.

Now problem solving process for engineers is typically 5 to 7 steps depends how you approach it. Step #1 is to define the problem. You stated or quoted,” US is the evil country”. Well, I don’t think countries are evil, it’s their policies or policy makers who you can criticize. For argument sake, let’s take it as problem and then your solution to stop immigration cause, why strength something that is evil. Even your solution is not correct. Immigration bring diversity in country and diversity of thinking in future governments mean more understanding of other regions and cultures and less conflicts. You can’t stop human immigration/emigration just like you can’t stop effect of gravity or resistance in any real world engineering problem. It’s a natural phenomenon.

Now, Nobody likes 16 hrs long haul flight in economy, .still majority of the people fly economy because of financial convenience. Now you are implying if passengers criticize the seat space, and don’t like but still fly economy, may be economy is not bad enough for them? Or maybe he grasped the nuances of his actions.

 

[Trango Towers]

So when will people stop coming to America?

When white have left America back to where they come from .. Europe.

1. The US is an evil country.

2. The US is a good country.

3. People continues to come to the US.

1 + 3 is a conundrum. An instant problem that those who believe in 1 cannot, but more like can never, reconcile. People, at least upon initial instinct, recognize that there is something 'off' about it. It is like a woman know there is a pimp in the neighborhood and went to work for him as a prostitute anyway. She endures a slavery-like existence and the odd part is that she knows her fate even BEFORE she went to work for him. So for those who believe the US is an 'evil' country, either they are too dense to know the 'nuances' on how to assess countries, people, geopolitics, culture, and psychology, or that the statement is wrong immediately at face value.

1 + 2 is consistent. You do not have to be perfect to be good. You just have to be better. In the world that full of imperfections, how would anyone make that calculation, especially when there are no standards in the first place? The problem for those who believe that the US is an 'evil' country is that people make that calculus all the time and they do it INDEPENDENT of these pseudo intellectual critics who are always eager to use the word 'nuance' in their critiques of the US. Why did John Oliver, already successful in Britain, became a US citizen? Not because Hollywood raised his contract salary by %X dollars if become a US citizen. If you want to look at patriotism, you would look at the redneck South, not Hollywood. Another Briton, Steve Hilton, also became US citizen and went to work for Fox News. Two politicos with opposite views but shares one common opinion: that the US is worthy of their allegiance.

The word 'nuance' is code for "I am too intellectually lazy or deficient to flesh out the issue on my own so with that word I can accuse you of being stupid if you disagree".

People go for the same reason you whites left Ireland and Britain initially. Persecution and rich pastures. Why have you forgotten that

 

[gambit]

I don’t think anyone who really hates US even applies for US visa.

I hope never.

Those outside can have their opinions. You can have yours, you can hate on China. Russia or sheiks of Dubai and still visit them, work there and nobody gives a sh!t. Now just cause someone has difference of opinion on current US policies doesn’t make them a hater. Political commentators do that all the time. It’s called 1st amendment.

The 1st is a strawman. Rebuttals does not mean I am seeking to silence you, not even on the legal front. Opinions, once expressed, invites rebuttals, which are also protected by the 1st, correct? Or are you seeking to express your opinions for narcissistic reason? If not, if you are genuinely interested in discourse, then stop calling for 1st Amendment protection, not even rhetorically.

Now problem solving process for engineers is typically 5 to 7 steps depends how you approach it. Step #1 is to define the problem. You stated or quoted,” US is the evil country”. Well, I don’t think countries are evil, it’s their policies or policy makers who you can criticize. For argument sake, let’s take it as problem and then your solution to stop immigration cause, why strength something that is evil. Even your solution is not correct. Immigration bring diversity in country and diversity of thinking in future governments mean more understanding of other regions and cultures and less conflicts. You can’t stop human immigration/emigration just like you can’t stop effect of gravity or resistance in any real world engineering problem. It’s a natural phenomenon.

The problem with your rebuttal is that immigration is an invitation, not coercion.

If someone believes the US is an 'evil' country, then by common sense, he would not want his countrymen to go to the US, no matter how wide our door is, correct? Where did I said that my solution is for US to stop immigration? Nowhere. If someone believes the US is an 'evil' country, then the burden is upon HIS country to come up with a solution to stop their people from coming to the US, not for US to stop them.

There are no shortages of commentators, including Americans, who believes the US is an 'evil' country. Americans who believes so, cannot stop immigration. Foreigners who believes so, cannot stop their countrymen from immigrating/emigrating to the US. Why not? That is the 'nuance' of the issue that those who pretentiously used the word too chickenshit to explain.

 

[tower9]

I hope never.


The 1st is a strawman. Rebuttals does not mean I am seeking to silence you, not even on the legal front. Opinions, once expressed, invites rebuttals, which are also protected by the 1st, correct? Or are you seeking to express your opinions for narcissistic reason? If not, if you are genuinely interested in discourse, then stop calling for 1st Amendment protection, not even rhetorically.


The problem with your rebuttal is that immigration is an invitation, not coercion.

If someone believes the US is an 'evil' country, then by common sense, he would not want his countrymen to go to the US, no matter how wide our door is, correct? Where did I said that my solution is for US to stop immigration? Nowhere. If someone believes the US is an 'evil' country, then the burden is upon HIS country to come up with a solution to stop their people from coming to the US, not for US to stop them.

There are no shortages of commentators, including Americans, who believes the US is an 'evil' country. Americans who believes so, cannot stop immigration. Foreigners who believes so, cannot stop their countrymen from immigrating/emigrating to the US. Why not? That is the 'nuance' of the issue that those who pretentiously used the word too chickenshit to explain.

I’ve already explained how the system works earlier in this thread. We don’t need your nonsensical kindergarten tier logical fallacies.

Empires accumulate wealth and power through brute force. The US does this. It has acquired immense wealth which is a magnet for many peoples who seek economic gain. Many subjugated peoples go to the metropole to gain economic advantage or survival. The fact that this happens does not negate the evil that is being perpetuated. Indians and Africans went to London to find work even as their native countries were being starved and raped by the British. Eastern Europeans and central Asians were in Moscow in huge numbers even as the Soviet Union controlled their countries with an iron fist.

You tell me if it’s not evil that we spent two decades blowing up Afghan children because defense contractors wanted to use that country to funnel taxpayer funds to their own pockets using the politicians they bought and paid for to create policies that earned them billions, at the expense of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, sometimes entire families of poor people being outright murdered.

But go ahead again with your jingoistic chest beating, trying desperately to portray yourself as Captain America. You’re just either too dumb or too intellectually dishonest to connect the dots.

 

[gambit]

I’ve already explained how the system works earlier in this thread. We don’t need your nonsensical kindergarten tier logical fallacies.

You 'explained' nothing. What you posted, if not copied/pasted, is most likely rearranging words lifted from World Socialist Web Site or something similarly worthless.

Why are John Oliver and Steve Hilton US citizens? Both men are Britons and already successful. Hilton now works for Fox News so we can dismiss him, for now. But Oliver, why is he US citizen? What can he MATERIALLY gain? Certainly not money because there are plenty of foreigners in the US in media, entertainment and news, who are not US citizens and make a lot of money along with fame.

Category:Canadian expatriate journalists in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Peter Jennings ABC News. John Roberts Fox News.

We can say that Oliver want to make more money in the US, but that does not explain your claim about economics needs and survival. Oliver does not need to be US citizen in order to make fun of American conservatives. Hilton does not need to be US citizen in order to make fun of American liberals. Each man's financial gain would be the same regardless.

But Oliver made public his US citizenship and how he felt about it. Why?

John Oliver 'nearly burst into tears' voting for the first time as a U.S. citizen

English TV host John Oliver of 'Last Week Tonight' talked to Stephen Colbert on about voting for the first time as a U.S. citizen in the 2020 election.

www.latimes.com

“Last Week Tonight” host John Oliver talked to fellow late-night comedian Stephen Colbert Monday about voting for the first time as a U.S. citizen and revealed he got choked up in the voting booth.​

​

“Honestly, it was amazing,” Oliver told his fellow “Daily Show” alum. “As an immigrant who had just got his citizenship in December of last year, I was waiting for that to feel real. When you worry about your immigration status all the time, even getting your passport still doesn’t feel real because you haven’t tested it against a system.”​

I did not get choked up when I got my US citizenship or when I voted for the first time. If anything, I felt most emotional when I raised my right hand to join the USAF.

Oliver was not destitute when came to the US. He got on the capitalist gravy train from the first step.

Here is Helen Mirren...

Foreign-Born Celebrities Who Became U.S. Citizens

These stars have earned their right to call themselves proud Americans after becoming U.S. citizens

people.com

"I saw the second tower come down," Mirren said. "I had an epiphany. I realized where my allegiance and my heart and my intellect lay in that confrontation between extremism, religiosity — all those things and everything that America represents."​

​

"And I thought, 'I'm an American,' " the actress, who is married to American director Taylor Hackford, continued. "I got an American flag, and I put it outside my window."​

Note her word -- allegiance. That word came first.

Enes Kanter changed his name to 'Freedom'. Ryan Reynolds of Deadpool fame said it was 'scary' the first time he voted in a US election. Why 'scary'? What does Reynolds understands about the US that YOU do not?

Or are these famous and rich people who became US citizens too 'nuanced' for you?

 

[CLUMSY]

Lmao, I said the exact same thing during an argument with someone that literally wanted to replace the entire culture, politics, literally everything to a copy of America/west.

Like literally take our unique identity that makes us who we are, and replace it all with western culture

These people genuinely think if you aren't a liberal lgbt loving democratic society promoting everything western even if it's degenerate, then you will simply never progress...

The US was socially conservative and considered homosexuality as a mental illness while it was pumping out F-16s, the world's most technologically advanced fighter that is still incredibly capable today!

All we need to do is take beneficial aspects of cultures in specific areas like education and research, get rid of toxic aspects of our own like extreme tribalism. Then develop our individual identity, like our culture/language, further as that's what makes us unique, makes Pakistan as Pakistan. We can still shape our society how we want, we don't need to be a colony of America in every single aspect.

American conservatism is an entirely different ballgame than Pakistani conservatism. I wouldnt even say US back then was really that conservative

 

[tower9]

You 'explained' nothing. What you posted, if not copied/pasted, is most likely rearranging words lifted from World Socialist Web Site or something similarly worthless.

Why are John Oliver and Steve Hilton US citizens? Both men are Britons and already successful. Hilton now works for Fox News so we can dismiss him, for now. But Oliver, why is he US citizen? What can he MATERIALLY gain? Certainly not money because there are plenty of foreigners in the US in media, entertainment and news, who are not US citizens and make a lot of money along with fame.

Category:Canadian expatriate journalists in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Peter Jennings ABC News. John Roberts Fox News.

We can say that Oliver want to make more money in the US, but that does not explain your claim about economics needs and survival. Oliver does not need to be US citizen in order to make fun of American conservatives. Hilton does not need to be US citizen in order to make fun of American liberals. Each man's financial gain would be the same regardless.

But Oliver made public his US citizenship and how he felt about it. Why?

John Oliver 'nearly burst into tears' voting for the first time as a U.S. citizen

English TV host John Oliver of 'Last Week Tonight' talked to Stephen Colbert on about voting for the first time as a U.S. citizen in the 2020 election.

www.latimes.com

“Last Week Tonight” host John Oliver talked to fellow late-night comedian Stephen Colbert Monday about voting for the first time as a U.S. citizen and revealed he got choked up in the voting booth.​

​

“Honestly, it was amazing,” Oliver told his fellow “Daily Show” alum. “As an immigrant who had just got his citizenship in December of last year, I was waiting for that to feel real. When you worry about your immigration status all the time, even getting your passport still doesn’t feel real because you haven’t tested it against a system.”​

I did not get choked up when I got my US citizenship or when I voted for the first time. If anything, I felt most emotional when I raised my right hand to join the USAF.

Oliver was not destitute when came to the US. He got on the capitalist gravy train from the first step.

Here is Helen Mirren...

Foreign-Born Celebrities Who Became U.S. Citizens

These stars have earned their right to call themselves proud Americans after becoming U.S. citizens

people.com

"I saw the second tower come down," Mirren said. "I had an epiphany. I realized where my allegiance and my heart and my intellect lay in that confrontation between extremism, religiosity — all those things and everything that America represents."​

​

"And I thought, 'I'm an American,' " the actress, who is married to American director Taylor Hackford, continued. "I got an American flag, and I put it outside my window."​

Note her word -- allegiance. That word came first.

Enes Kanter changed his name to 'Freedom'. Ryan Reynolds of Deadpool fame said it was 'scary' the first time he voted in a US election. Why 'scary'? What does Reynolds understands about the US that YOU do not?

Or are these famous and rich people who became US citizens too 'nuanced' for you?

What the hell did I just read? I shouldnt be surprised though as the art of deflection is your knee jerk reaction whenever you are in over your head. You didn’t even bother to comment on anything substantive regarding how the MIC funnels money through govt to itself and fabricates wars for profit. No, instead you wrote endless drivel about John Oliver.

Listen old man, take your meds, you’re daydreaming again. I think it’s time for Nurse Amy to wheel you back to your room.

 

[gambit]

What the hell did I just read?

The 'nuances' that you claimed to be sooooo aware of but cannot deal with.

 

[tower9]

The 'nuances' that you claimed to be sooooo aware of but cannot deal with.

At this point, I think you’re just vomiting words. I’d be embarrassed if I were you.