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America or China: one day, we will have to choose

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Politicians can no longer bury their head in the sand about our foreign policy direction.

There is something obsessive about the way our leaders keep saying that Australia does not have to choose between America and China. Julia Gillard says it almost every time she talks about foreign policy. Bob Carr and Stephen Smith cling to it. It's woven into the government's Asian Century white paper and National Security Statement.

And it's there again in the Defence white paper: ''The government does not believe that Australia must choose between its longstanding alliance with the United States and its expanding relationship with China.''

Tony Abbott and Julie Bishop say the same thing, and John Howard said recently it was ''infantile'' even to discuss the idea that we might have to choose.

But is it true? It depends what precisely we think our leaders are saying. If they are talking about the past and even the present, then the mantra is true. For many years now we have not had to choose between the US and China, and this has been absolutely vital to us. America has kept us safe and China has kept us solvent.

The whole question, however, is whether this will still be so in future. Our leaders shamelessly evade this question, because although grammatically ''we don't have to choose'' is about the present, they present it as a prediction about the future. They therefore assume that what's been true must stay true.

One can see why they are so edgy about it. If they turn out to be wrong, and we do have to choose, all our ideas about Australia's future will be overturned. How can we be secure without America? How can we be prosperous without China? These are questions they want to evade, because they have no answers to them.

But this is precisely why they are so wrong to avoid the whole issue. This is why our highest foreign policy priority must be to keep both relationships strong, and why it is so important to understand what might threaten our ability to do that.

Whether in future we will face a choice between America and China depends absolutely on how their relationship with one another develops. The decision will not be ours, but theirs. If either of them decide that we have to make a choice, then we do. The better they get along, the less we will be forced to choose. The more they see themselves as rivals, the starker our choices will be.

We have faced such choices before, of course. Between 1949, when the Communists took power, and 1972, when Nixon went to Beijing, America and China were bitter rivals, and we wholeheartedly backed America against China in Korea, Malaya and Vietnam. It was the deal between Nixon and Mao, and the US-China relationship that flowed from it, that changed all that, and has saved us from making choices for the past 40 years.

Now there is a real risk that their rivalry will revive, because China no longer accepts the deal Mao did in 1972. It claims a bigger role in Asia to match its growing power, and that can only come at America's expense. The great question of our age, and the most important question for Australian foreign policy in decades, is whether Washington and Beijing can negotiate a new power-sharing arrangement that satisfies both of them and provides a basis for future co-operation.

If they can reach this kind of new mutual understanding about their roles in Asia, Australia will not have to choose between them. If they can't, rivalry between them will escalate, and we will be forced to choose. The government assumes that a deal will be done, because that would be in both sides' best interests.

But this ignores the very real signs that rivalry between America and China is growing fast. This can be seen in the South China Sea and the East China Sea, where disputed islands are merely tokens in a contest in which it wants to show that it can challenge America at sea, and America wants to prove that it cannot. Underlying this is China's strategic build-up in Asia, and America's own build-up in response.

As this rivalry grows, ''we do not have to choose'' turns out to mean trying to play both sides at the same time. We welcome the US military build-up in Asia, and we welcome China's military build-up too. We urge America and China to reach new understanding about their roles in Asia, but we also urge America to keep playing exactly the same role as hitherto.

This can't last. Eventually both Washington and Beijing will grow sick of it, but before then things could easily be brought to a head by a US-China clash somewhere like the East China Sea. If that happens, America will ask for direct Australian military support against China. How will ''we do not have to choose'' sound then?

So Australia does face a choice today. It is not a choice between the US and China. It is a choice about whether we do anything to avoid being forced to make that choice in future. It is not clear exactly what we could do. But by just repeating ''we don't have to choose'', our leaders are choosing not to even explore the issue. They are choosing to do nothing about the most important foreign policy challenge we face.


Read more: America or China: one day, we will have to choose
 
I dont know why pakistanis want to choose one.
Cant they carry all, if not then Pakistan survival is a question mark?
what a stupid thread, Sorry to thread starter :)
 
I dont know why pakistanis want to choose one.
Cant they carry all, if not then Pakistan survival is a question mark?
what a stupid thread, Sorry to thread starter :)

IT's not about Pakistani's - it's about Australians choosing between US and China - and we do have a fair idea what their choice would be.
 
The answer is very simple
Losers choose USA (declining empire)
winners choose China(rising superpower)
 
The answer is very simple
Losers choose USA (declining empire)
winners choose China(rising superpower)

百足之虫,死而不僵

Americans are still a long way from falling, and even when they do actually start to, their military at current strength without any new weapons will still top 3 in 60 years and more.

The way I see it China and US will eventually reach a new point where any confrontation, will be like cold war, in a unrelated country with no easy way of reaching the other without massive loses if even possible.

However, unlike the cold war, China AND US are both interdependent, very involved in the world, both huge economic powers, and envies of the world.

So this won't be a cold war, but it also won't be a one man show. A new world order is upon us.
 
i dont see US and china fighting each other directly, even in places like korea, with the sole exception of Taiwan where the US is bound by treaty to defend and china is bound by its constitution to use force if peaceful unification proves impossible, for instance developing a nuclear bomb or formally declaring independence( in other words highly, highly unlikely to happen). All this means its highly unlikely that countries like Australia have to formally and directly (as in directly support one or the other in an arm conflict) choose one or the other, because the US isnt going to attack china and china isnt going to attack the US and and conflict of the two will never be approved in the UN where both hold veto powers (meaning no mandate forcing Australia to act), thus any conflict will be by proxy where Australia can get by with token forces or drag their feet citing mandates, political problem, etc etc. yet at the same time neither US nor China will reduce any cooperation with Australia because Australia is still important.
 
The answer is very simple
Losers choose USA (declining empire)
winners choose China(rising superpower)
Losers make comments like this. YOU will not see the 'collapse' of the US. Neither will your children and neither will your grandchildren. And the odds of your great grandchildren seeing such 'collapse' are not that good either.
 
To be honest no country really has to make that choice unless China or America force them to. However, I would suspect that pressure to choose would be coming from the Americans.

Regardless, Australia is going to choose China.

Australia's economy (ex. 30% of Australian exports go to China vs. 3% to the US) and security is far more reliant on South East Asia and China than America.
 
Considering all those corrupted officials' sons and daughters residing in the U.S., I don't see how the CCP officials would want to make that choice ever happen. When no officials are sending their kids and ill-earned fortune to the U.S., we can start talking.

Stupid thread.
 
To be honest no country really has to make that choice unless China or America force them to. However, I would suspect that pressure to choose would be coming from the Americans.

Regardless, Australia is going to choose China.

Australia's economy (ex. 30% of Australian exports go to China vs. 3% to the US) and security is far more reliant on South East Asia and China than America.
You don't understand the English mind very well.
 
Losers make comments like this. YOU will not see the 'collapse' of the US. Neither will your children and neither will your grandchildren. And the odds of your great grandchildren seeing such 'collapse' are not that good either.

wake up dude your economy suck , you don't have any more manufacturing industry, we are outperforming you guys left right and center, take a look at the article below if you want to know how desperate your government in their last ditch attempt to save your superpower status

Cyber-security turns into new battleground as US-China tension grows

“It is using these spying allegations to justify why people should not buy Chinese goods. America used to argue that it was the home of innovation, and that Chinese goods were poor quality, but it can’t do that anymore,” she says.

The Chinese technology market might be flooded with fake iPhones and unashamed imitations, but Chinese companies are giving US rivals a serious run for their money.
In Beijing, Lenovo has usurped America’s Hewlett-Packard as the biggest PC manufacturer in the world, and has now set its sights on doing the same in the smartphone market. Meanwhile Huawei has toppled Ericsson as the largest telecoms equipment maker, even without access to the US market, and is battling to do the same in the lucrative cloud computer networking market, posing a serious threat to the likes of Cisco.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...w-battleground-as-US-China-tension-grows.html
 
China is rising too fast. US too a long time to get to where it is. China is riding a boom. We never know for sure, but those that experience astronomical rise tend not to sustain.
 
Considering all those corrupted officials' sons and daughters residing in the U.S., I don't see how the CCP officials would want to make that choice ever happen. When no officials are sending their kids and ill-earned fortune to the U.S., we can start talking.

Stupid thread.

Sending children to America is because of prestige not practical purpose.

Like America before China, sending their kids to Europe for education, and traveling to Europe was the goal and dream to Americans. However that changed when Americans started to really dominate.

I'm not just talking economy, Americans had the number one production for a while and yet people still see Europe as better, but as time passes.....

Once China proves itself in terms of technology, the schools will be deemed world class(though not by Americans, cause according to them, they are the only country with universities), once China starts to fix the pollution, China will be seen as a great place to live, once time passes and Chinese economy is still strong, regardless of strong or "weak" growth, China will truly be in center stage.

As you can see all of these things take time and time is exactly what's going to change perception.
 

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