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Alice Wells’ visit to Pakistan — a nod for multi alignment with US? : OP ED, The News

This sums up the situation in India very well:


Recently, Delhi has been rattled: the first shock for India—a ‘Major Defence Partner’ of the US and which has strategic relations with Iran and ambitions to operate Tehran’s Chabahar Port—came in when Washington handed over a slap in the face by not informing about its decision of General Suleimani’s impending assassination.

Then Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s decision to call Pakistan’s Army Chief of Staff General Bajwa within hours of the strike only served to rub salt in the Indian wound, followed by a chat of the US Defence Secretary Patrick Michael Shanahan with the Army Chief. Perturbed over some protesters in India who chanted anti-American and pro-Iran slogans subsequent to the killing of Iranian General, Delhi found isolated in the impending Middle Eastern crisis.

Interestingly, President Donald Trump, who always boasts of PM Modi’s closed friendship did not bother to call the Indian prime minister. Last but not the least, the State Department’s announcement resuming military training for Pakistan’s armed forces was the last thing policy makers in Delhi wanted to hear.


Guys..You are assuming your supremacy againt India for middle east process as India was not consulted...But is it not an advantage for us if we stay out of middle east?? Because Iran and Isreal are both important for us in broader scheme of things..:
Rather it will be advantageous for Pakistan if India is somehow dragged into this conflict and come to a point where we have to choose some sides...
 
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Guys..You are assuming your supremacy againt India for middle east process as India was not consulted...But is it not an advantage for us if we stay out of middle east?? Because Iran and Isreal are both important for us in broader scheme of things..:
Rather it will be advantageous for Pakistan if India is somehow dragged into this conflict and come to a point where we have to choose some sides...


Absolutely I agree .... India will always be a insignificant regional power bullying countries like Bhutan, Maldives, Bangladesh and Srilanka
 
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Guys..You are assuming your supremacy againt India for middle east process as India was not consulted...But is it not an advantage for us if we stay out of middle east?? Because Iran and Isreal are both important for us in broader scheme of things..:
Rather it will be advantageous for Pakistan if India is somehow dragged into this conflict and come to a point where we have to choose some sides...

:sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
India is not fooling anyone everyone knows India would pick Israel in a heartbeat over Iran if it had to. Birds of a feather flock together.
 
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Hi,

Some would say that there is racism in my post---but if you look at the composition of pak military---that is very evident.

Most of the pak military is build on clans and tribes who were warriors in tradition---except for a very few---. And it is not about Sindhis or Baluchis being in low numbers in pak military---both of these are warring people but had been overlooked during recruitment---.
 
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Prolonged neutrality can have downsides. Even with neutrality, one can still lose everything. But Pakistan has a very interesting reason for its neutrality:

So here I want to add something for Mastan and anti-Mastan parties: Pakistan has always been selfish. We do not have any feelings for this so called 'Ummah'. We dont care. We dont care if the Saudi Kingdom falls or the Iranian empire is destroyed.

We have always only looked after our own interests. And that interest is neutrality, not because we support both sides, but that we dont care about both of them.

Since Pakistan's inception, we have known only one enemy and that is India. Who are these Middle Eastern kingdoms and why do they ask for our help then? We carved a country out of the sub continent without their help and can continue living without their help.

Pakistan cares only about Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pathan, Gilgiti and the Kashmiri man. Our foreign policy and ideology revolves around these people. How can these men be stationed in those kingdoms? How will we inspire the young men to serve in those Kingdoms? We will tell them that they are serving the 'ummah'?

For these men, Ummah has been the Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pathan, Gilgiti and the Kashmiri man and that's it.

Then if they are sent to the GCC , which Ummah they will be serving?
 
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Prolonged neutrality can have downsides. Even with neutrality, one can still lose everything. But Pakistan has a very interesting reason for its neutrality:

So here I want to add something for Mastan and anti-Mastan parties: Pakistan has always been selfish. We do not have any feelings for this so called 'Ummah'. We dont care. We dont care if the Saudi Kingdom falls or the Iranian empire is destroyed.

We have always only looked after our own interests. And that interest is neutrality, not because we support both sides, but that we dont care about both of them.

Since Pakistan's inception, we have known only one enemy and that is India. Who are these Middle Eastern kingdoms and why do they ask for our help then? We carved a country out of the sub continent without their help and can continue living without their help.

Pakistan cares only about Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pathan, Gilgiti and the Kashmiri man. Our foreign policy and ideology revolves around these people. How can these men be stationed in those kingdoms? How will we inspire the young men to serve in those Kingdoms? We will tell them that they are serving the 'ummah'?

For these men, Ummah has been the Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pathan, Gilgiti and the Kashmiri man and that's it.

Then if they are sent to the GCC , which Ummah they will be serving?



"Then if they are sent to the GCC , which Ummah they will be serving?"

Hi,

They will be serving the pakistani ummah---. The would have gotten the jobs away from the indians---that means servining pakistani ummah---that meant sending more money home---meaning serving pakistani ummah---.

The first thing that happens when the money comes home from outside---house construction or house upgrades begin---which means jobs created and serving pakistani ummah---.

So what would be the big deal if 1000---2000 pakistani troops laid down their lives for serving pakistani ummah---big deal.

We would not be sitting at the bring of being sanctioned by fatf---or being sabotaged by indian hegemony or the US---. We wuld have been getting another 3-5 billion dollars in remittance and from the sales of ammunition and from other services---and all that would be serving pakistani ummah---.

That is what the bottom line is---by serving in the GCC---we truly serve pakistan more than serving the GCC---.

The only problem here is that you need a sledge hammer to hi it on the pakistanis head to make him understand that---.

And look what has happened now---senior Shia religious scholars---leaders and important personalities have also agreed to the reality that for Pakistani Shia populace---Pakistan stands first---.

Pakistanis live in an illusion that things will get better---. Their lack intelligence to look around and see that the things have taken a turn for the worst---.

Pakistan's economy is in shambles---law & order situation---out of control---Judges and judiciary---out of control---soon the public will wake up and get out of control---.

The public will not give a sh-it about neutrality---or shia or sunni---our islamic brotherhood or whatever brotherhood---.

One of my grand aunts would have said---kAMMI kAMEEN ARE IN POWER---they will destroy the country for what is left of it---.

Our rangers and military men are already dying for the country---and they are dying for less money. What if they had to die for 10 or 20 or 30 times the money what then---would anyone refuse to serve---.

The problem here is---that these soldiers have not been SHOWN THE PAY PLAN for serving in the GCC---othewise there would have been a riot at the Rawalpindi garrison---.
 
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I might add a very different view point as to why Pakistan wants to remain neutral. It has to do with China and the transitions taking place in the Chinese Military domains. I know it won't make sense to some but China wants to transform its military into an AI military by 2035 which is only 15-years away!! Just have a look at Chinese military whitepapers to understand this. The 3-phases of this transformation are Industry-based Military (Present) -->Netcentric Military -->AI Military. Due to geopolitical and geo-strategic needs, Pakistan is being dragged along by China. So in the next 15-years when the Chinese military becomes an AI based military, the target is that Pakistan's military needs to be in the 'Digital Military' status and bordering AI. Have a look at what is going on in Pak Military today and you will get the hint of what I am saying.
For all this to happen, it is imperative that Pakistan does not get involve in wars, its military resources are not stretched but rather used to achieve the 'Netcentric Military' status.

And that is why I think that the Pak Military will not get involve in ME, and will only stick with India, and with its powerplay in A-Stan.
 
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Hi,

Thank you for putting those names up---.

The countries are EARTHWORM countries---have no impact on military standings---.

Turkey declared war on Germany in 1945 february---. They were hurt bad in the first world war.


If Turkey had the power that pakistan has---it would be a different nation.

I have stated many a times---pakistanis see themselves as innocent children---" don't bother us---we don't bother anyone "---and these children have no clue what powers they yield---.

Pakistan has close to two hundred nuc weapons---it is military super power of the region---. It is the 7th or 8th most militarily powerful nation of the world---and yet its citizens act like WEAKLINGS---.

For that very reason---I am a firm believer that most of the WARRIOR MUSLIM CLANS OF THE SUB CONTINENT were decimated by the british east india company after they took control of the sub continent some 200 years + ago---.

And many of the remaining were killed during the 1947 partition---. Some warrior clans who escaped from the british hid in the jungles of punjab---many were sold out to the british by the current Multani Landlords---.

The lower caste converted muslims took the names of the warring caste and acted like them---but the genetic make up was not the same---and every time---a military crisis looms on the country---they become active against the welfare of Pakistan.

You should be ashamed and embarrassed to give the examples of the weakest countries staying out of war and then PRANCING and STRUTTING over your examples.

Israel---a weakling nation in 1967---its very existence depended on victories in war---.

Britain a financially broke nation after the Napoleone war---declared wars thru its proxy in a different world---africa---sub continent and other parts of asia---.

And those countries you mentioned---the reason they did not go to war was to make money from war---thru refugees who rushed to these countries and transferred their wealth to those countries.

Again---I am concerned at the mind set of the pakistanis---to claim themselves to be equal in strength with the weakest nations of europe rather than those making decisions of power positioning and getting the rewards---.

What a defeatist mindset and thought---.

You think short term. Acting as a mercenary today would bring in chump change. Some much needed stability for 20-30 years and realising our economic potential would lead to a situation where we can dictate terms in the future. People will plan around us, not the other way around.

You have to realise your own position before you act rashly. A country teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, lacking a true national identity, void of a sense of civic duty, full of weak leaders at best and out right enemies of the state at worst. You act like we're a superpower.

Who is Pakistani in our country? Most are Muslim first, or Shia first or sunni first, or ethnically Arab or ethnically Persian, or they're Sindhi, Punjabi, baloch or pukhtun. The rest are liberals, Conservative, socialist, lawyer or doctor - but nobody seems to be Pakistani. Foreign powers dictate our foreign policy, our economic policy, our political identity. Our leadership class looks outside the country for influence, and support. Foreign cash is stuffed into the pockets of our media, politicians and so called social activists. Do you think a country like this can play at the big boys table? The last time we tried 80,000 were killed by suicide bombers; and this was whilst the state was sniffing around looking for scraps off the big boys table.

We overhype our military capabilities because compared to the incompetence of every other pillar of state they look like supermen. Let's have a reality check. How many foreign agencies openly operate in our country? At war since 2002, has our Intel improved? Who keeps bombing quetta and how? We setup all these networks initially but them we didn't put down our dogs when they were rabid. They reaked havoc before we stopped them. How long does it take to get vital security info nationwide? Does our police have a national crime database? Integrated it systems? Trained officers? Intelligence led policing? Who crossed our borders? Where does our timber go? How does our Atta get smuggled? Why are there videos of convoys of fuel smugglers but nobody stopping them? How does the opium, guns and explosives get in? Our borders are not secure - we are vulnerable.

If we went into Yemen, Iran would activate the Shia militias it controls inside Pakistan. We'd have faced a Shia version of the TTP.

We sat by and watched as they built contacts with our criminals (Uzair Baloch). We sat and watched as they facilitated our enemies (Kulbushan). We sat and watched as they recruited terrorists (to fight in Syria/Iraq). We've failed to secure our border with them (still unfenced).

Yet you want to fight a war against them in Yemen for cash, whilst we leave our own home unprotected. This is a massive political and military failure of our state. We can't give people an opportunity to exploit it.

The way forward for us, I'd to start with basic competence at home. Secure our borders, crush the enemy within, built capability, build a society with an identity - educate our people. Build a robust economy and then try to play the games.
 
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Our government has decided to "NOT to ask for anything or any financial help" from US, and the whole pdf is fucking begging like whores.

Do you guys have any self-respect?
Have you forgotten what happened to the last deals?
You still want more up your behind?




For time being
  • Release of our CSF fund
  • Super cobras and F16 would be a good start
  • Support on FATF Clearance
  • Trade boost

And sanctions on India would be great start (cough cough)
 
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Keep these Zionist-Swines and their American slaves at a distance from Pakistan. The best way to deal with America is straight forward, if you wanna trade then it must benefit Pakistan, if not then boot them out. If you want to sell us weapons, sell them without strings attached and we owe you squat, if not then kick them out. If you want Pakistan to be your friend, then prove your worthiness to be a true friend, if not then slam the door on them.

But we all know that America is a state that cannot, should not and would not be trusted or to make deals with, because they are a bunch of lieing swines.
 
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the witch is here! honestly should have given her a piece of paper and sent her packing.
 
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Would it upset India if the US provided Pakistan with a squadron of F35’s?

Oh bro they will lose it hahahah :lol: and if by any chance PAF gets it, than F-35's will become docile in Indian Mindset ..
 
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You think short term. Acting as a mercenary today would bring in chump change. Some much needed stability for 20-30 years and realising our economic potential would lead to a situation where we can dictate terms in the future. People will plan around us, not the other way around.

You have to realise your own position before you act rashly. A country teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, lacking a true national identity, void of a sense of civic duty, full of weak leaders at best and out right enemies of the state at worst. You act like we're a superpower.

Who is Pakistani in our country? Most are Muslim first, or Shia first or sunni first, or ethnically Arab or ethnically Persian, or they're Sindhi, Punjabi, baloch or pukhtun. The rest are liberals, Conservative, socialist, lawyer or doctor - but nobody seems to be Pakistani. Foreign powers dictate our foreign policy, our economic policy, our political identity. Our leadership class looks outside the country for influence, and support. Foreign cash is stuffed into the pockets of our media, politicians and so called social activists. Do you think a country like this can play at the big boys table? The last time we tried 80,000 were killed by suicide bombers; and this was whilst the state was sniffing around looking for scraps off the big boys table.

We overhype our military capabilities because compared to the incompetence of every other pillar of state they look like supermen. Let's have a reality check. How many foreign agencies openly operate in our country? At war since 2002, has our Intel improved? Who keeps bombing quetta and how? We setup all these networks initially but them we didn't put down our dogs when they were rabid. They reaked havoc before we stopped them. How long does it take to get vital security info nationwide? Does our police have a national crime database? Integrated it systems? Trained officers? Intelligence led policing? Who crossed our borders? Where does our timber go? How does our Atta get smuggled? Why are there videos of convoys of fuel smugglers but nobody stopping them? How does the opium, guns and explosives get in? Our borders are not secure - we are vulnerable.

If we went into Yemen, Iran would activate the Shia militias it controls inside Pakistan. We'd have faced a Shia version of the TTP.

We sat by and watched as they built contacts with our criminals (Uzair Baloch). We sat and watched as they facilitated our enemies (Kulbushan). We sat and watched as they recruited terrorists (to fight in Syria/Iraq). We've failed to secure our border with them (still unfenced).

Yet you want to fight a war against them in Yemen for cash, whilst we leave our own home unprotected. This is a massive political and military failure of our state. We can't give people an opportunity to exploit it.

The way forward for us, I'd to start with basic competence at home. Secure our borders, crush the enemy within, built capability, build a society with an identity - educate our people. Build a robust economy and then try to play the games.

Hi,

You have to survive short term to be able to think of surviving for a long term---.

Otherwise your enemy would never let you have economic stability---as is so evident from what is happening with Pakistan---.

It is just like thinking about your plans of what you will be doing after you get your PhD done---but you have yet to clear 12th grade in college---.

Iran would be paying 10 to 20 thousand ruppees to pakistani shia mercenary boys---. The GCC could be paying maybe a 100000 plus a month.

If Pak did not go in yemen 5 years ago---it still can go now---. Iran is in no position to pull the plug---. But the GCC still needs pak assistance---.

Our border problems are going to stay the same if we go to GCC or not---. That fear should not stop us from doing what is beneficial for the better economy of the nation---.

For GCC---Pk military will create / recruit a separate fighting force all funded by the GCC. If in the process we can build up a 100-150 k extra troops in GCC and all equipment funded by GCC---where then lies the problem---.

Your forefathers 300 years ago did not think of it the way pakistanis are thinking now---.

Iran is worth two nuc strikes if worse came to worst and no one in the world would blink an eye over the demise of iranian regime---.
 
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