After the screw up - a catharsis

[Sinnerman108]

Since the not so old screw up, I am going to put some pieces down and try and perform a catharsis.

1. Fact, social media is a force, as much was accepted by boys, however nothing much was done to control and analyze the
sentiment. This was a crucial mistake that our establishment made. When things were good they were riding the wave,
but no one planned to when things will go bad.
Buy hey, worst is about to come. Elon musk is giving everyone a internet connection via starlink satellite and he has purchased twitter. This means any means of whatever control is useless.
A year on, anyone would be able to post and do anything at all without any state control or monitoring and there is nothing
anyone would be able to do about it, except for Musk himself.

2, Politics, while the establishment had taken a more backward role since musharaf, and neutrality ( in whatever magnitude )
was becoming a norm. Recent backlash has show that
a. People are much more aware than they were 15 years ago.
b. People understand and realize culprits.
c. People understand the absurdity of our legal system
d. People EXPECTED the establishment to stand for Pakistan.

What we are seeing now, is not a result of establishment is incompetent. It is not because people want them to take
over kashmir, or go in hard on TTP, It is because people wanted good for Pakistan and expected the establishment to play accordingly.

3, Irrespective of the political narrative on TV, Establishment's role in politics are well understood and ACCEPTED by people
as active line of defense. People were willing to look away from constitutional BS etc, so long as active cleanup was
seen happening.
Point in case is Gen Mushrraf; who when promised to go hard and cleanup, people were with him; however his failure to lash a few eventually turned into disappointment; and we all know how that sentiment was used and exploited.

4. Time more than anything else is important. noonies and billy have one and only one game plan, and that is to play for time, The longer they are able to stall and play, the tougher it gets to catch them. IK had a mandate to lash the noonies and billys. He too made the same mistake as Mushrraf and eventually got caught up in the quagmire that is our judicial system.
hit hard, hit fast, hit clean. That is a what it is all about.

5. You cannot expect YOs to run this, and you can't expect a career officer to lead this. the folks who manage and lead this
wear jeans and T shirts, they don't shave everyday, and they have weird work routines. This is the nature of the job.
If you try to impose on them it won't work, if you try to mold them; they will become you; i,e useless desk jockeys.

Rest is upto you guys, weather or not you will learn, ( and history is witness to your bad habit of not learning).

Cheers.

My suggestion,

Do a rirz carlton, or let a Ritz Carlton happen; just enable it.
all your sins will be forgiven and forgotten.

 

[SQ8]

1. Starlink isn’t coming to Pakistan but other than shutting down internet entirely there is no way to control what is happening.

2. The establishment was actually as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.
The only interference they did was to use their relationship with the United States to try and smooth things out after the Russia fiasco which was the final nail in the coffin of a brash IK. In some ways IK in this stubbornness is responsible for rocking the boat in a haphazard manner that everyone is disorientated.

3.The establishment were expecting to be left out and continue golfing at Chinar golf club during spring bloom while the people hated on the PML and PPP then come back around the next elections just to ensure free and fair ones even if it meant IK coming back with a majority.
Hoping to patch up then and advise IK to be more astute in picking team and political players along with building the right relationships abroad.

4. Clearly that is working- the goldfish that are Pakistani people who swim to each splash only to forget in 10 seconds what it was about will forget and be ok with criminal overlords by the end of the year. They simply are too well fed, selfish and generally lazy to undertake any revolution despite a lot of ruckes for now. Revolution requires more than one face of dynamic leadership which PTI lacks.

5. Technically YO are more technology astute then any of their seniors ever were or will be. Centcom has its rep here as well so PR and information warfare is practiced by most evolved militaries. Just not against what are at the end their own people.

 

[Sinnerman108]

1. Starlink isn’t coming to Pakistan but other than shutting down internet entirely there is no way to control what is happening.

2. The establishment was actually as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.
The only interference they did was to use their relationship with the United States to try and smooth things out after the Russia fiasco which was the final nail in the coffin of a brash IK. In some ways IK in this stubbornness is responsible for rocking the boat in a haphazard manner that everyone is disorientated.

3.The establishment were expecting to be left out and continue golfing at Chinar golf club during spring bloom while the people hated on the PML and PPP then come back around the next elections just to ensure free and fair ones even if it meant IK coming back with a majority.
Hoping to patch up then and advise IK to be more astute in picking team and political players along with building the right relationships abroad.

4. Clearly that is working- the goldfish that are Pakistani people who swim to each splash only to forget in 10 seconds what it was about will forget and be ok with criminal overlords by the end of the year. They simply are too well fed, selfish and generally lazy to undertake any revolution despite a lot of ruckes for now. Revolution requires more than one face of dynamic leadership which PTI lacks.

5. Technically YO are more technology astute then any of their seniors ever were or will be. Centcom has its rep here as well so PR and information warfare is practiced by most evolved militaries. Just not against what are at the end their own people.

Tch Tch ,.. still making excuses.

Tell me what stops starlink from coming to Pakistan ?
2,3,4 ... wake up and smell the coffee.

5. I have first hand experience and i can tell you if they were half as astute as you are claiming, they won't be there.

 

[SQ8]

Tch Tch ,.. still making excuses.

Tell me what stops starlink from coming to Pakistan ?
2,3,4 ... wake up and smell the coffee.

5. I have first hand experience and i can tell you if they were half as astute as you are claiming, they won't be there.

Me making excuses or is it you just stuck in the same myopic loop?
You do realize the amount of flak I would get for criticism of the military right or are you in some lone wolf romantic jihad against “the establishment”?

Nothing stops me bringing starlink on a flight to Pakistan - Whether I will or anyone else will in the next 4 months is the question.
Will it be implemented in customs to not let satellite terminals through?
Who knows.

I have first hand experience too - what makes yours more valid than mine?

 

[Sinnerman108]

Me making excuses or is it you just stuck in the same myopic loop?
You do realize the amount of flak I would get for criticism of the military right or are you in some lone wolf romantic jihad against “the establishment”?

Nothing stops me bringing starlink on a flight to Pakistan - Whether I will or anyone else will in the next 4 months is the question.
Will it be implemented in customs to not let satellite terminals through?
Who knows.

I have first hand experience too - what makes yours more valid than mine?

When you assert something, make sure there is enough rational basis for that assertion.
This requires careful consideration.

It will help you in your career and life.

 

[SQ8]

When you assert something, make sure there is enough rational basis for that assertion.
This requires careful consideration.

It will help you in your career and life.

Rational for whom? You?
Now you are just sheepishly trying to hold on your argument based on some sense of intellectual superiority. Instead of actually arguing against what was posted - so basically you’re here to rant and rave rather than post anything of substance

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Tch Tch ,.. still making excuses.

He's not making excuses. You need to read all of his recent posts to understand that he's trying to offer a nuanced explanation of recent events as he sees them.

I have never seen SQ8 act as an apologist for the political parties or military.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

1. Starlink isn’t coming to Pakistan but other than shutting down internet entirely there is no way to control what is happening.

2. The establishment was actually as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.
The only interference they did was to use their relationship with the United States to try and smooth things out after the Russia fiasco which was the final nail in the coffin of a brash IK. In some ways IK in this stubbornness is responsible for rocking the boat in a haphazard manner that everyone is disorientated.

3.The establishment were expecting to be left out and continue golfing at Chinar golf club during spring bloom while the people hated on the PML and PPP then come back around the next elections just to ensure free and fair ones even if it meant IK coming back with a majority.
Hoping to patch up then and advise IK to be more astute in picking team and political players along with building the right relationships abroad.

4. Clearly that is working- the goldfish that are Pakistani people who swim to each splash only to forget in 10 seconds what it was about will forget and be ok with criminal overlords by the end of the year. They simply are too well fed, selfish and generally lazy to undertake any revolution despite a lot of ruckes for now. Revolution requires more than one face of dynamic leadership which PTI lacks.

5. Technically YO are more technology astute then any of their seniors ever were or will be. Centcom has its rep here as well so PR and information warfare is practiced by most evolved militaries. Just not against what are at the end their own people.

tbh...thinking from a purely political analysis level...the current fiasco has given PTI/IK a public opinion boost.

I felt that had PTI/IK continued in government, they would've sputtered. It would've left people with the choice of a mediocre government versus a brazenly corrupt one. While PTI/IK could win, I think it would've been a disengaged and "whatever" election process.

If anything, that might've helped PPP/PML as they have a tighter "grip" on their voting base.

However, now, it feels (subjectively) as if Pakistan's on the line by the next election. Those who might have just saw the PTI/IK as mediocre now really hate the PPP/PML for forcibly reinserting themselves into the picture. There's a level of galvanization now that can potentially push PTI/IK into a majority government.

 

[Burger_King]

I have bad news. Situation could have been salvaged tomorrow if army was the cause. Instead, its grand aqa Amreeka pulling the strings and it does not give a damn especially when the country is thousands of miles away - a country bubba america could not identify on the map if his life depended on it . America could kill thousands of Pakistanis and no one could give a damn.

Against grand aqa america, even the mighty Pakistani army does not stand a chance. One reason is that grand aqa has in its pocket, two important organs of the state namely judiciary and the press. I dont mention politicians for obvious reasons. So if army had acted against grand hukkum, press (local and foreign) would have been activated and army and IK would have been painted as rogue agents. CIA would have bumped off couple anti-army politicians and journalists and finger would obviously be pointed on gunday security agencies and its ally IK. We know what would happen next.

Seeing writing on the wall, army had no choice but to turn "neutral" because high command knows it is on a hiding to nothing if stood on the way of grand aqa. Pakistani society is much too fractious and clueless to fight nefarious forces at play. Even if Jinnah was to arise from the dead, he would have no chance because dirty elements within Pakistani society would work to bring him down just in the same manner as they did when he was alive. Dont forget that after 1946 elections, ML despite being the largest party in Punjab assembly, could not form the government because the rump Unionist party allied with non-muslims. We see the repeat of same situation in existing Punjab assembly. In the current situation substitute hindus with munafiqs who dishonour the quran by taking false oath.

Given reality, army chose the rational course which is to turn "neutral". Cat is away so out come the mice. Lucky for Pakistan, grand aqa is slightly less grand thanks in part to social media. Awam which allowed itself to be fooled when Kiyani turned rogue, has developed an imperfect understanding of reality. Imperfect because fingers are being pointed towards small aqa rather than the grand aqa.

Army however cannot escape the blame. They should war-gamed for the situation. But they did not. I am however optimistic. All though there might be a couple of rogue generals, there are enough good men who will ensure Jinnah's holy miracle will not go to waste.

Ameen.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I have bad news. Situation could have been salvaged tomorrow if army was the cause. Instead, its grand aqa Amreeka pulling the strings and it does not give a damn especially when the country is thousands of miles away - a country bubba america could not identify on the map if his life depended on it . America could kill thousands of Pakistanis and no one could give a damn.

Against grand aqa america, even the mighty Pakistani army does not stand a chance. One reason is that grand aqa has in its pocket, two important organs of the state namely judiciary and the press. I dont mention politicians for obvious reasons. So if army had acted against grand hukkum, press (local and foreign) would have been activated and army and IK would have been painted as rogue agents. CIA would have bumped off couple anti-army politicians and journalists and finger would obviously be pointed on gunday security agencies and its ally IK. We know what would happen next.

Seeing writing on the wall, army had no choice but to turn "neutral" because high command knows it is on a hiding to nothing if stood on the way of grand aqa. Pakistani society is much too fractious and clueless to fight nefarious forces at play. Even if Jinnah was to arise from the dead, he would have no chance because dirty elements within Pakistani society would work to bring him down just in the same manner as they did when he was alive. Dont forget that after 1946 elections, ML despite being the largest party in Punjab assembly, could not form the government because the rump Unionist party allied with non-muslims. We see the repeat of same situation in existing Punjab assembly. In the current situation substitute hindus with munafiqs who dishonour the quran by taking false oath.

Given reality, army chose the rational course which is to turn "neutral". Cat is away so out come the mice. Lucky for Pakistan, grand aqa is slightly less grand thanks in part to social media. Awam which allowed itself to be fooled when Kiyani turned rogue, has developed an imperfect understanding of reality. Imperfect because fingers are being pointed towards small aqa rather than the grand aqa.

Army however cannot escape the blame. They should war-gamed for the situation. But they did not. I am however optimistic. All though there might be a couple of rogue generals, there are enough good men who will ensure Jinnah's holy miracle will not go to waste.

Ameen.

Fair enough and the question here again,
is why did the officers accept compromise ?

how many years has it been to plug balochistan and why is it still bleeding ?

 

[The Accountant]

1. Starlink isn’t coming to Pakistan but other than shutting down internet entirely there is no way to control what is happening.

2. The establishment was actually as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.
The only interference they did was to use their relationship with the United States to try and smooth things out after the Russia fiasco which was the final nail in the coffin of a brash IK. In some ways IK in this stubbornness is responsible for rocking the boat in a haphazard manner that everyone is disorientated.

3.The establishment were expecting to be left out and continue golfing at Chinar golf club during spring bloom while the people hated on the PML and PPP then come back around the next elections just to ensure free and fair ones even if it meant IK coming back with a majority.
Hoping to patch up then and advise IK to be more astute in picking team and political players along with building the right relationships abroad.

4. Clearly that is working- the goldfish that are Pakistani people who swim to each splash only to forget in 10 seconds what it was about will forget and be ok with criminal overlords by the end of the year. They simply are too well fed, selfish and generally lazy to undertake any revolution despite a lot of ruckes for now. Revolution requires more than one face of dynamic leadership which PTI lacks.

5. Technically YO are more technology astute then any of their seniors ever were or will be. Centcom has its rep here as well so PR and information warfare is practiced by most evolved militaries. Just not against what are at the end their own people.

Do u really believe establishment was neutral. Circumstantial evidence points otherwise.

Prisoner van on the last day.

opening of Islamabad high court at 12 o clock at night for Army chief removal.

Defending government removal in ISPR press conference.

Leak conversation of army chief ex-servicemen.

Bajwa was behind all this regime change operation.

 

[M. Sarmad]

2. The establishment was actually as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.

The IHC and SC opened up at midnight to make sure that:

1) Bajwa remains the Chief
2) Shahbaz becomes the PM

And then LHC installed Hamza in Punjab in the most unconstitutional way

Too much for being labelled "neutral", no?
It's really naive to believe that Courts throughout Pakistan acted in synchronization on their own, or it was just PMLN & PPP behind this
It was Bajwa and co. behind this all along
They just got exposed in the end

 

[SQ8]

The IHC and SC opened up at midnight to make sure that:

1) Bajwa remains the Chief
2) Shahbaz becomes the PM

And then LHC installed Hamza in Punjab in the most unconstitutional way

Too much for being labelled "neutral", no?
It's really naive to believe that Courts throughout Pakistan acted in synchronization on their own, or it was just PMLN & PPP behind this
It was Bajwa and co. behind this all along
They just got exposed in the end

The delineation I made is “as neutral as they could be” - bear in mind that the PML(N) has way more leverage over the courts than expected. There are familial and businesses ties up and down the entire judiciary with the PML(N) and PPP within Sindh.

Do u really believe establishment was neutral. Circumstantial evidence points otherwise.

Prisoner van on the last day.

opening of Islamabad high court at 12 o clock at night for Army chief removal.

Defending government removal in ISPR press conference.

Leak conversation of army chief ex-servicemen.

Bajwa was behind all this regime change operation.

My exact words “as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.”

They didn’t help those Judiciary relationships play out but didn’t stop it either. Only manipulating the references against the Chief.

The amount of rot the two dynasties have left in state institutions by PML(N) and PPP will take decades to clean using normal channels.

 

[SIPRA]

The IHC and SC opened up at midnight to make sure that:

1) Bajwa remains the Chief
2) Shahbaz becomes the PM

And then LHC installed Hamza in Punjab in the most unconstitutional way

Too much for being labelled "neutral", no?
It's really naive to believe that Courts throughout Pakistan acted in synchronization on their own, or it was just PMLN & PPP behind this
It was Bajwa and co. behind this all along
They just got exposed in the end

Yes. That is precisely the case. Add to it the imposition of DG(ISI) against the wishes of IK, who had to play the key role in this drama. Some people are finding it hard to digest, that our COAS is such a low-life. Once, this hitch is overcome; things are absolutely crystal clear. This claim of "neutrality" is utter hogwash.

 

[Norwegian]

The only interference they did was to use their relationship with the United States to try and smooth things out after the Russia fiasco which was the final nail in the coffin of a brash IK. In some ways IK in this stubbornness is responsible for rocking the boat in a haphazard manner that everyone is disorientated.

What Russia fiasco? Imran Khan's Stubbornness is much better than whoring entire country to US interests for decades by the civil military establishment