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After Allahabad, Hindu right wants Muzaffarnagar renamed Laxminagar

It's all because of partition... Most people of India believe British India divided on basis of Hindu , Muslims... Muslims got Pakistan, Bangladesh...so why Hindus want there Hindu identify back ...
Umm...No... nice try though.

Had there been no partition, the Hindus would still vote based on communal and sectarian politics.
The Indian National Congress was very Pro-Hindu at that time.

Hindus would still try their best to stamp out minorities, their cultures, and their identities in a United South Asia.
 
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Umm...No... nice try though.

Had there been no partition, the Hindus would still vote based on communal and sectarian politics.
The Indian National Congress was very Pro-Hindu at that time.

Hindus would still try their best to stamp out minorities, their cultures, and their identities in a United South Asia.
Very difficult to change names if united India was there...60 crore or 45percent population with huge numbers of Muslim MPs and MLAs representing Muslims,...not looks easy...

Even united Muslims could have ruling India with huge vote bank of Muslims and Dalits. .
 
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Very difficult to change names if united India was there...60 crore or 45percent population with huge numbers of Muslim MPs and MLAs representing Muslims,...not looks easy...
Muslims would have only made 33% of a United South Asia population.

Nice try though ;).

Muslims would just have been a larger minority.

Very difficult to change names if united India was there...60 crore or 45percent population with huge numbers of Muslim MPs and MLAs representing Muslims,...not looks easy...

Even united Muslims could have ruling India with huge vote bank of Muslims and Dalits. .
No we would not.
The Cabinet Mission Plan were not willing to give autonomy to Muslim majority regions.

It became obvious the Hindus just wanted dominance.

Sorry buddy.
 
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Aurangezab's rule was different when compared to the others

1) Aurangezab ruled most parts of the subcontinent unlike other Muslim rulers. There are people who support Tipu as he took help from French to confront the British rule while others in Karnakata/Kerala border dislike him for his killings. There are bigger killings that have happened in the history of the subcontinent from the time of Mahabharata to Ashoka's war against Kaligas. Ashoka killed more people in that war than all Mughals kings combined but those were all wars within the same religion. But the wars with Islamic rulers are looked differently because

a) Ancient rulers did not destroy the temples. They just killed the people who opposed them.
b) There was no Tax based on Religion

2) Aurangezab was almost the last powerful Mughal ruler. British had started taking over India and British took full advantage of frictions caused between Muslims and Hindus due to the policies of Aurangezab. Many Hindus felt comfortable under British East India company than Aurangezab's rule.

3) Hindus and Muslims did show unity even after the Mughals were gone in 1857. This was a wake up call for the British who took full control of India from East India company and started implementing policies that would make the Hindu-Muslim divide as permanent. Starting with Urdu-Hindi conflicts (Aligarh Muslim University vs Beneras Hindu University) and later through Minto-Morley Reforms, British used its lackeys in India to make the Hindu-Muslim divide permanent.


In the early days, People from the subcontinent did support the followers of Ali and fought in the battle of Karbala against the Umayyads in 680 AD. Umayyads did not like this and sent their General Muhammad bin Qasim to take revenge against that act in 711 AD. And the rest was history.

It is ironic that Muslims of the subcontinent are supporting descendants of Umayyads (Saudi Arabia) than descendants of Ali (Persia).



Why?
With respect you have simplified Indian history and also Muslim history, especially Muslim history.
The descendants of Imam Ali (May God be pleased with Him) are not exclusive to Persia and neither does Persia (exclusively) represent his way of life. Of course there is disagreement in the Muslim community about this. Also Muslims of Indus (Pakistan) are not supporters of Saudi Arabia any more than Iran.

About Mughals and India (Subcontinent)....let me agree for the sake of argument that Aurungazeb was a cruel King, then why not only change those names from his period. Why change all of Mughal history?
I understand that followers of Sanatum Dharm preferred British India to Auragzab, but guess what many Muslims also rebelled against him. You know it was the coterminous Pakistani Pukhtoon Kushal Khattak Khan who inflicted great damage to the Mughal Empire and they were Muslims....arguably because of him the Mughal state lost effective control in what is now Southern Afghanistan and North West Pakistan....

It's all because of partition... Most people of India believe British India divided on basis of Hindu , Muslims... Muslims got Pakistan, Bangladesh...so Hindus want there Hindu identify back ...
I see....but the thing is that about 20% of Bharat is not Sanatum Dharm. And not all Muslims of British India wanted a free Indus Land (Pakistan)....

But if that is what you want....fair enough...but you got a lot of changing to do....Muslim dynasties have rule North Bharat for at least 8 centuries.....there is a lot of "contamination" including terms like "Hindu", "Hindustan", "Hindi"...

@SuvarnaTeja Also you know this tax on non Muslims, it is for those non Muslims who do not wish to bear arms for the State in case of War.....if a non Muslim would join the army then he would not have to pay this tax....now I do not know how Islamic Aurangzab was in his application of this tax....????
 
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No it
Muslims would hav
With respect you have simplified Indian history and also Muslim history, especially Muslim history.
The descendants of Imam Ali (May God be pleased with Him) are not exclusive to Persia and neither does Persia (exclusively) represent his way of life. Of course there is disagreement in the Muslim community about this. Also Muslims of Indus (Pakistan) are not supporters of Saudi Arabia any more than Iran.

About Mughals and India (Subcontinent)....let me agree for the sake of argument that Aurungazeb was a cruel King, then why not only change those names from his period. Why change all of Mughal history?
I understand that followers of Sanatum Dharm preferred British India to Auragzab, but guess what many Muslims also rebelled against him. You know it was the coterminous Pakistani Pukhtoon Kushal Khattak Khan who inflicted great damage to the Mughal Empire and they were Muslims....arguably because of him the Mughal state lost effective control in what is now Southern Afghanistan and North West Pakistan....


I see....but the thing is that about 20% of Bharat is not Sanatum Dharm. And not all Muslims of British India wanted a free Indus Land (Pakistan)....

But if that is what you want....fair enough...but you got a lot of changing to do....Muslim dynasties have rule North Bharat for at least 8 centuries.....there is a lot of "contamination" including terms like "Hindu", "Hindustan", "Hindi"...
All started from here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Bengal_(1905)
 
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We can agree to disagree. Point is, Hindus would still have dominated the minorities in a United South Asia.

Exactly Muslims demanded for partition, because they knew the Hindus would have dominated the minorities.

If it wasn't for the Indian National Congress's narrow mindedness, partition might have been avoided.
Hmm.. Muslims shown it in direct action day..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Action_Day
 
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And why did they demand this?

Care to think of this?

Do you think they would have demanded this during the time of Mughal India?

Or Dehli Sultunate of India??
Yes...that's how lots of separate kingdoms mostly Muslims born throughout India during declining rule of moghul period.
 
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Yes...that's how lots of separate kingdoms mostly Muslims born throughout India during declining rule of moghul period.
Yeah so was this on the basis of religion then? Or ethnic nationalism?

Otherwise the partition of Bengal just follows in a long line of partitions which is what mainly India has been just like the Subcontinent of Europe.
 
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With respect you have simplified Indian history and also Muslim history, especially Muslim history.
The descendants of Imam Ali (May God be pleased with Him) are not exclusive to Persia and neither does Persia (exclusively) represent his way of life. Of course there is disagreement in the Muslim community about this. Also Muslims of Indus (Pakistan) are not supporters of Saudi Arabia any more than Iran.

About Mughals and India (Subcontinent)....let me agree for the sake of argument that Aurungazeb was a cruel King, then why not only change those names from his period. Why change all of Mughal history?
I understand that followers of Sanatum Dharm preferred British India to Auragzab, but guess what many Muslims also rebelled against him. You know it was the coterminous Pakistani Pukhtoon Kushal Khattak Khan who inflicted great damage to the Mughal Empire and they were Muslims....arguably because of him the Mughal state lost effective control in what is now Southern Afghanistan and North West Pakistan....

@SuvarnaTeja Also you know this tax on non Muslims, it is for those non Muslims who do not wish to bear arms for the State in case of War.....if a non Muslim would join the army then he would not have to pay this tax....now I do not know how Islamic Aurangzab was in his application of this tax....????

I never said that Aurungazeb was supported by other Muslim rulers. In fact the Muslim nawabs were with the British fighting the Mughals. I am not saying Aurungazeb was cruel and others were saints. But any policies related to temples and tax would have direct impact on the people as they directly felt those impacts. For Hindus, temples are very sacred as they are literally the home of their gods that they believe in while Islam takes exactly the opposite position of the need to destruct temples to prevent idol worship. Temples were destroyed by other Islamic rulers too not just by Aurungazeb but Aurungazeb re-enacted the tax which Akbar abolished. So people would have felt the impact and would not have liked it.

Yes I know Muslims too pay different tax but hindus paid extra. Anyway if the money was collected with a different name it may not have been so bad but when people see that they are being discriminated based on their religion it is bound to create friction.

Religious Policy of Aurangzeb:

[[198]] While Aurangzeb was extending the empire in the east and south, and consolidating his position on the northwest marches, he was also concerned with the strengthening of Islam throughout the kingdom. His attempt to conduct the affairs of state according to traditional Islamic policy brought to the fore the problem that had confronted every ruler who had attempted to make Islam the guiding force: the position of the Hindu majority in relation to the government. In 1688, when he forbade music at the royal court and took other puritanical steps in conformity with strict injunctions of Muslim law, he affected both Hindus and Muslims. When jizya, abolished for nearly a century, was reimposed in 1679, it was the Hindus alone who suffered.

By now Aurangzeb had accepted the policy of regulating his government in accordance with strict Islamic law, and many orders implementing this policy were issued. A large number of taxes were abolished which had been levied in India for centuries but which were not authorized by Islamic law. Possibly it was the unfavorable effect of these remissions on the state exchequer which led to the exploration of other lawful sources of revenue. The fact that, according to the most responsible account, the reimposition of jizya was suggested by an officer of the finance department would seem to show that it was primarily a fiscal measure./4/ The theologians, who were becoming dominant at the court, naturally endorsed the proposal, and Aurangzeb carried it out with his customary thoroughness.

Another measure which has caused adverse comment is the issue of orders at various stages regarding the destruction of Hindu temples. Originally these orders applied to a few specific cases—such as the temple at Mathura built by Abul Fazl's murderer, to which a railing had been added by Aurangzeb's rival, Dara Shukoh. More far-reaching is the claim that when it was reported to him that Hindus were teaching Muslims their "wicked science," Aurangzeb issued orders to all governors "ordering the destruction of temples and schools and totally [[199]] prohibiting the teaching and infidel practices of the unbelievers."/5/ That such an order was actually given is doubtful; certainly it was never carried out with any thoroughness. However, it is incontestable that at a certain stage Aurangzeb tried to enforce strict Islamic law by ordering the destruction of newly built Hindu temples. Later, the procedure was adopted of closing down rather than destroying the newly built temples in Hindu localities. It is also true that very often the orders of destruction remained a dead letter, but Aurangzeb was too deeply committed to the ordering of his government according to Islamic law to omit its implementation in so significant a matter. The fact that a total ban on the construction of new temples was adopted only by later jurists, and was a departure from the earlier Muslim practice as laid down by Muhammad ibn Qasim in Sind, was no concern of the correct, conscientious, and legal-minded Aurangzeb.

As a part of general policy of ordering the affairs of the state in accordance with the views of the ulama, certain discriminatory orders against the Hindus were issued: for example, imposition of higher customs duties, 5 percent on the goods of the Hindus as against 2 percent on those of Muslims. These were generally in accordance with the practice of the times, but they marked a departure not only from the political philosophy governing Mughal government, but also from the policy followed hitherto by most Muslim rulers in India.

Aurangzeb has often been accused of closing the doors of official employment on the Hindus, but a study of the list of his officers shows this is not so. Actually there were more Hindu officers under him than under any other Mughal emperor. Though this was primarily due to a general increase in the number of officers, it shows that there was no ban on the employment of the Hindus.

That Aurangzeb's religious policy was unpopular at the time is true, but that it was an important factor, as usually charged, in the downfall of the empire, is doubtful. The Hindu uprisings of his reign seem to have had no wide religious appeal, and they were supressed with the help of Hindu leaders. Their significance comes in the following reigns, when the rulers were no longer able to meet opposition as effectively—and as ruthlessly—as had Aurangzeb. His religious policy [[200]] aimed at strengthening an empire already overextended in Shah Jahan's time; that it failed in its objective is probably true, but the mistake should not be made of assuming that the attempt was a major element in the later political decay. It should be seen, rather, as part of an unsuccessful attempt to stave off disaster. Seen in this light, his religious policy is one element, but not a causal one, save in its failure to achieve its intended goal, among the many that have to be considered in seeking an understanding of Aurangzeb's difficulties.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part2_15.html
 
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I don't see the big deal about it. It may upset some Muslims in India, but they will get over it.
 
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I never said that Aurungazeb was supported by other Muslim rulers. In fact the Muslim nawabs were with the British fighting the Mughals. I am not saying Aurungazeb was cruel and others were saints. But any policies related to temples and tax would have direct impact on the people as they directly felt those impacts. For Hindus, temples are very sacred as they are literally the home of their gods that they believe in while Islam takes exactly the opposite position of the need to destruct temples to prevent idol worship. Temples were destroyed by other Islamic rulers too not just by Aurungazeb but Aurungazeb re-enacted the tax which Akbar abolished. So people would have felt the impact and would not have liked it.

Yes I know Muslims too pay different tax but hindus paid extra. Anyway if the money was collected with a different name it may not have been so bad but when people see that they are being discriminated based on their religion it is bound to create friction.

Religious Policy of Aurangzeb:

[[198]] While Aurangzeb was extending the empire in the east and south, and consolidating his position on the northwest marches, he was also concerned with the strengthening of Islam throughout the kingdom. His attempt to conduct the affairs of state according to traditional Islamic policy brought to the fore the problem that had confronted every ruler who had attempted to make Islam the guiding force: the position of the Hindu majority in relation to the government. In 1688, when he forbade music at the royal court and took other puritanical steps in conformity with strict injunctions of Muslim law, he affected both Hindus and Muslims. When jizya, abolished for nearly a century, was reimposed in 1679, it was the Hindus alone who suffered.

By now Aurangzeb had accepted the policy of regulating his government in accordance with strict Islamic law, and many orders implementing this policy were issued. A large number of taxes were abolished which had been levied in India for centuries but which were not authorized by Islamic law. Possibly it was the unfavorable effect of these remissions on the state exchequer which led to the exploration of other lawful sources of revenue. The fact that, according to the most responsible account, the reimposition of jizya was suggested by an officer of the finance department would seem to show that it was primarily a fiscal measure./4/ The theologians, who were becoming dominant at the court, naturally endorsed the proposal, and Aurangzeb carried it out with his customary thoroughness.

Another measure which has caused adverse comment is the issue of orders at various stages regarding the destruction of Hindu temples. Originally these orders applied to a few specific cases—such as the temple at Mathura built by Abul Fazl's murderer, to which a railing had been added by Aurangzeb's rival, Dara Shukoh. More far-reaching is the claim that when it was reported to him that Hindus were teaching Muslims their "wicked science," Aurangzeb issued orders to all governors "ordering the destruction of temples and schools and totally [[199]] prohibiting the teaching and infidel practices of the unbelievers."/5/ That such an order was actually given is doubtful; certainly it was never carried out with any thoroughness. However, it is incontestable that at a certain stage Aurangzeb tried to enforce strict Islamic law by ordering the destruction of newly built Hindu temples. Later, the procedure was adopted of closing down rather than destroying the newly built temples in Hindu localities. It is also true that very often the orders of destruction remained a dead letter, but Aurangzeb was too deeply committed to the ordering of his government according to Islamic law to omit its implementation in so significant a matter. The fact that a total ban on the construction of new temples was adopted only by later jurists, and was a departure from the earlier Muslim practice as laid down by Muhammad ibn Qasim in Sind, was no concern of the correct, conscientious, and legal-minded Aurangzeb.

As a part of general policy of ordering the affairs of the state in accordance with the views of the ulama, certain discriminatory orders against the Hindus were issued: for example, imposition of higher customs duties, 5 percent on the goods of the Hindus as against 2 percent on those of Muslims. These were generally in accordance with the practice of the times, but they marked a departure not only from the political philosophy governing Mughal government, but also from the policy followed hitherto by most Muslim rulers in India.

Aurangzeb has often been accused of closing the doors of official employment on the Hindus, but a study of the list of his officers shows this is not so. Actually there were more Hindu officers under him than under any other Mughal emperor. Though this was primarily due to a general increase in the number of officers, it shows that there was no ban on the employment of the Hindus.

That Aurangzeb's religious policy was unpopular at the time is true, but that it was an important factor, as usually charged, in the downfall of the empire, is doubtful. The Hindu uprisings of his reign seem to have had no wide religious appeal, and they were supressed with the help of Hindu leaders. Their significance comes in the following reigns, when the rulers were no longer able to meet opposition as effectively—and as ruthlessly—as had Aurangzeb. His religious policy [[200]] aimed at strengthening an empire already overextended in Shah Jahan's time; that it failed in its objective is probably true, but the mistake should not be made of assuming that the attempt was a major element in the later political decay. It should be seen, rather, as part of an unsuccessful attempt to stave off disaster. Seen in this light, his religious policy is one element, but not a causal one, save in its failure to achieve its intended goal, among the many that have to be considered in seeking an understanding of Aurangzeb's difficulties.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part2_15.html
I understand your point and have said let me agree for the sake of argument that Emperor Aurangzeb was particularly cruel to his non Muslim subjects....why then remove changes not from his period??
Why change stuff from eras of other emperors??

It seems that the Vedantists hold all Mughals as cruel rulers.....or if they were truly selective then they would also look at cruel emperors from Mauryan empire...? and other empires of India??

Also again I note your relative ignorance on Islam ..."while Islam takes exactly the opposite position of the need to destruct temples to prevent idol worship."
There is no need to destroy temples just simply because they house idols....
 
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