Afghanistan: Defeated America & Pakistan

[graphican]

Hello guys,

I want to engage you for your opinion if defeated America is in the favor of Pakistan or not. In my opinion, America and NATO's forthcoming defeat is beneficial to the country in many ways.

1 - With America being lost and gone, we will have pre 9/11 status of Afghanistan back which was in the favor of Pakistan every way.
2 - Indian activities and elements will be cleansed, or atleast cleansed from the areas that concern Pakistan the most.
3 - Afghanistan will remain a threat to Americans and inspite of their escape from it, they will depend heavily on Pakistan for their matters concerning Afghanistan.
4 - Our FATA and Baluchistan issues will resolve a lot sooner than they will do now. Terrorist hideouts will be eliminated and their supplies will be cut a great deal.
5 - In terms of Business and infrastructure, Pakistan will have a lot to offer to Afghans and our economy and trade will boost.
6 - With peace on Western Borders, we could focus our energies on the eastern borders to counter India.
7 - American influence from the region will get reduced and even for that sake, they will depend more on Pakistan/India and we will have better control of them than now.

In my opinion, this American defeat is more favorable to the country than its presence. I am unable to find 1 good reason to see America being successful in Afghanistan. What do you guys say?

 

[FreekiN]

They are going to be in Afghanistan for a VERY long time so there isnt really much to say. But if this happens it should be beneficial to Pak I guess... but we should make a secure border system so that no more refugees and terrorists would be able to cross over like the one between Mexico and Texas.

 

[Omar1984]

They are going to be in Afghanistan for a VERY long time so there isnt really much to say. But if this happens it should be beneficial to Pak I guess... but we should make a secure border system so that no more refugees and terrorists would be able to cross over like the one between Mexico and Texas.

I dont think US will stay in Afghanistan for long. US spent more than 1 TRILLION dollars in this war already, and there's a financial crisis in US. Also some NATO countries refused to sent more troops into Afghanistan.


I know in the future Central Asia will be a rich region, but I doubt US will spend another trillion dollars in this war so they can control Central Asia.

 

[Omar1984]

Hello guys,

I want to engage you for your opinion if defeated America is in the favor of Pakistan or not. In my opinion, America and NATO's forthcoming defeat is beneficial to the country in many ways.

1 - With America being lost and gone, we will have pre 9/11 status of Afghanistan back which was in the favor of Pakistan every way.
2 - Indian activities and elements will be cleansed, or atleast cleansed from the areas that concern Pakistan the most.
3 - Afghanistan will remain a threat to Americans and inspite of their escape from it, they will depend heavily on Pakistan for their matters concerning Afghanistan.
4 - Our FATA and Baluchistan issues will resolve a lot sooner than they will do now. Terrorist hideouts will be eliminated and their supplies will be cut a great deal.
5 - In terms of Business and infrastructure, Pakistan will have a lot to offer to Afghans and our economy and trade will boost.
6 - With peace on Western Borders, we could focus our energies on the eastern borders to counter India.
7 - American influence from the region will get reduced and even for that sake, they will depend more on Pakistan/India and we will have better control of them than now.

In my opinion, this American defeat is more favorable to the country than its presence. I am unable to find 1 good reason to see America being successful in Afghanistan. What do you guys say?

I dont think Afghan Taliban like Pakistan right now.

 

[Hulk]

This situation is not good for world and Afghanistan. It is only good for Pakistan. Afghanistan should be made capable enough to be able to be able have independent policy. As per USA they might withdraw major forces but will keep bare minimum for long time. This will be done just to make sure it does not go to pre 9/11 situation. So even if they are out u r not in.

 

[Iggy]

With Taliban taking over Afghanistan Al-Queda will get a strong base to re organise and they will plan attacks all over the world like they used to be and also i don't think situation will be favorable to Pakistan because taliban dont forget who helped US in WoT and also if Al-Queda gets stronger it will give all out support for TTP in Pakistan ...As for Al-Queda and Afgan Taliban are concerned they prefer a TTP govt in Pakistan than democratically elected government

 

[graphican]

I dont think Afghan Taliban like Pakistan right now.

Hello Omer,

If you want to say Taliban like us lesser than they used to be than probably its true but they don't hate us neither they are hostile towards Pakistan. Taliban are still Pakistan friendly or friendlier as compared to Northern Alliance or America/NATO nexus. If Americans are out, Pakistan and Afghanistan don't have reasons to polarize, rather softness towards each other will increase because of increased Pashtoon bonding that we have with them.

 

[Omar1984]

Hello Omer,

If you want to say Taliban like us lesser than they used to be than probably its true but they don't hate us neither they are hostile towards Pakistan. Taliban are still Pakistan friendly or friendlier as compared to Northern Alliance or America/NATO nexus. If Americans are out, Pakistan and Afghanistan don't have reasons to polarize, rather softness towards each other will increase because of increased Pashtoon bonding that we have with them.

I dont think Taliban like us at all. Both TTP and Afghan Taliban hate Pakistan now because everyone in the world knows that Pakistan sided with US from the start in this war even the Afghan Taliban knows this so they wont be friendly with Pakistan in the future even if they again rule Afghanistan.


I agree with you that Pakistan needs good friendly relations with Afghanistan because we have seen in these past 8 years that what happens in Afghanistan has so much affect on Pakistan so we need to improve relations with Afghanistan more than any other country.

 

[FreekiN]

I say we make a gigantic wall made of steel so we dont even have to look at them. :]

Anyways, they dont like us at all. They think we are biased towards them, not only through politics and military support but through history and teachings.

You can go on youtube and see for yourselves why the average Afghani doesn't trust us.

EDIT: If they [afghans] dont want to work with us, then fine. Don't. Keep your jihad and teachings out. Please. For our innocent civilians sake.

 

[Bushy]

Graphican, your entire projection is based on the premise that the USA will get defeated and pull out completely, and so will India, leaving Mullah Omar to rule Afghanistan. The world will never accept that! Even in the past, the world did not accept that. Only three countries had recognized Taliban's legitimacy.

Secondly, Talibanis do not appreciate democracy, so I do not understand why would they not come after a democratic Pakistan and bring it under their version of Sharia, esp after having seen their victory in Afghanistan against a country like the mighty USA.

Thirdly, geopolitics does not go on the lines of 'friendship' and likeness (ex: China is Pakistan's friend... NO! Chinese have interest in the region, and need to achieve something, that's all). Similarly, Taliban also has its own interest, and will very easily make lucrative deals with their yesteryear foe, the USA, to supply oil from Central Asia. They were already on it with UNOCAL, when the Taliban government was in power, despite the fact that it was not recognized by the USA.

Finally, entire Afghanistan knows that Pakistanis look at Afghans with contempt, so what makes you think Afghanistan (even under Taliban) will not look for others (even India or the USA) to help them against Pakistan's incursions? - One simple, though insignificant, example:

FreeKin:

I say we make a gigantic wall made of steel so we dont even have to look at them. :]

Anyways, they dont like us at all. They think we are biased towards them, not only through politics and military support but through history and teachings.

You can go on youtube and see for yourselves why the average Afghani doesn't trust us.

Now quoting you:

5 - In terms of Business and infrastructure, Pakistan will have a lot to offer to Afghans and our economy and trade will boost.

All these years, how much and how often has Pakistan invested in Afghanistan's infrastructure? A country like India, no matter what its objectives, has spent more on infrastructure in Afghanistan, than has Pakistan. Do you think Afghans do not see that?

I seriously doubt a Talibani government in Afghanistan will be very beneficial for a Punjabi/Baloch/Sindhi ruled Pakistan.

The only common ground between Afghans and Pakistanis is Islam, and there too we can see the some wide cracks appearing because of their difference in interpretation of Islam as a whole.

In my personal opinion, Pakistan can only benefit by helping the USA so much in this war, that they win quickly against the Taliban. Then Pakistan can invest its time and energy internally, become stable, and enjoy the benefits of it being in a critical position when oil flows from the Central Asia. May be then, with its newly found importance, Pakistan may also have some leverage over India on border/Kashmir issues.

 

[Awesome]

If America leaves, we will have to play the role America was playing. Our war won't stop just because America leaves, the Taliban think they can take over Pakistan and will continue to try so. With Afghanistan as their HQ, they'll have a base of operations. It is also likely that if the nuisance gets too much to bear, we'll have to put boots on the ground in Afghanistan and you know how that always turns out.

Its best if America defeats the Taliban and then America leaves

 

[Bushy]

If America leaves, we will have to play the role America was playing. Our war won't stop just because America leaves, the Taliban think they can take over Pakistan and will continue to try so. With Afghanistan as their HQ, they'll have a base of operations. It is also likely that if the nuisance gets too much to bear, we'll have to put boots on the ground in Afghanistan and you know how that always turns out.

Its best if America defeats the Taliban and then America leaves

Asim,
The US has support in Afghanistan, be it Karzai or Abdhullahx2. And to make them look even better, India is heavily investing on infrastructure. What makes you think from what quarters are Pakistanis going to get any support? If Pakistan tries to take the place of the USA, then it will be called invasion, because Pakistan will not find support in any Afghan.

When the US, even after spending trillions along with a great support in the country (Afghanistan), is still struggling, what makes you think a much hated and inferior (inferior to the US army is all I mean, don't mind that) Pakistani army can do in Afghanistan?

Where will the PA get money from, and what about its eastern borders if PA begins to focus on western ones? Even now when the PA is focusing only on TTP, they have a grave concern on offensive from India's side, what do you think will happen when the PA goes all out for the Taliban in Pakistan, that too without any support from anywhere? That will be suicidal for the state of Pakistan. Best they can do is start a proxy war - a small long-term investment, but huge dividends. But then they will be termed as terrorists.

Finally, what on earth makes you think that the USA will leave after winning the war? Have you ever heard of any army that has fought a great war that cost it dearly, and then forgo all the prize after winning that war?

Please enlighten me on this if you have some info that we are all oblivious to.

 

[kamcos]

Hello guys,

I want to engage you for your opinion if defeated America is in the favor of Pakistan or not. In my opinion, America and NATO's forthcoming defeat is beneficial to the country in many ways.

1 - With America being lost and gone, we will have pre 9/11 status of Afghanistan back which was in the favor of Pakistan every way.
2 - Indian activities and elements will be cleansed, or atleast cleansed from the areas that concern Pakistan the most.
3 - Afghanistan will remain a threat to Americans and inspite of their escape from it, they will depend heavily on Pakistan for their matters concerning Afghanistan.
4 - Our FATA and Baluchistan issues will resolve a lot sooner than they will do now. Terrorist hideouts will be eliminated and their supplies will be cut a great deal.
5 - In terms of Business and infrastructure, Pakistan will have a lot to offer to Afghans and our economy and trade will boost.
6 - With peace on Western Borders, we could focus our energies on the eastern borders to counter India.
7 - American influence from the region will get reduced and even for that sake, they will depend more on Pakistan/India and we will have better control of them than now.

In my opinion, this American defeat is more favorable to the country than its presence. I am unable to find 1 good reason to see America being successful in Afghanistan. What do you guys say?

Hi,
From you point of view you are right.
But you are missing one point : Pakistan and Afghanistan are one country from the centuries.
Its divided artificially. So they should be one. Peace will come to the area. After that you can talk about things you are talking.
Otherwise there is no luck for Afghanistan and Pakistan. May be other countries like USA and India will enjoy us.
Indian imperialism and International imperialism need to control this area. Otherwise fight in this area is also suitable to their goal.
That's why Paksitan establishment divided on it and all the terror like matters are growing. If someone says that the unrest is totally from outside, than he is living in idiot's paradise.
These 2 countries are one historically.
Regards

 

[kumar_V1.0]

Hi,
From you point of view you are right.
But you are missing one point : Pakistan and Afghanistan are one country from the centuries.
Its divided artificially. So they should be one. Peace will come to the area. After that you can talk about things you are talking.
Otherwise there is no luck for Afghanistan and Pakistan. May be other countries like USA and India will enjoy us.
Indian imperialism and International imperialism need to control this area. Otherwise fight in this area is also suitable to their goal.
That's why Paksitan establishment divided on it and all the terror like matters are growing. If someone says that the unrest is totally from outside, than he is living in idiot's paradise.
These 2 countries are one historically.
Regards

If this is what common Pakistani thinks no wonder you are hated so much in afghanistan these days. And you talk about Indian Imperialism.

What bout Pakistan and India being one historically.

 

[Awesome]

Asim,
The US has support in Afghanistan, be it Karzai or Abdhullahx2. And to make them look even better, India is heavily investing on infrastructure. What makes you think from what quarters are Pakistanis going to get any support? If Pakistan tries to take the place of the USA, then it will be called invasion, because Pakistan will not find support in any Afghan.

Err, thats sort of understood.

When the US, even after spending trillions along with a great support in the country (Afghanistan), is still struggling, what makes you think a much hated and inferior (inferior to the US army is all I mean, don't mind that) Pakistani army can do in Afghanistan?

Pakistan has proven time and again that its strategies vs the militants and Afghanistan in general are more effective than those of the US. So its pretty safe to understand our goals in Afghanistan would be much different than those of America's.

Where will the PA get money from, and what about its eastern borders if PA begins to focus on western ones? Even now when the PA is focusing only on TTP, they have a grave concern on offensive from India's side, what do you think will happen when the PA goes all out for the Taliban in Pakistan, that too without any support from anywhere? That will be suicidal for the state of Pakistan. Best they can do is start a proxy war - a small long-term investment, but huge dividends. But then they will be termed as terrorists.

True, we don't want to put boots on the ground.

Finally, what on earth makes you think that the USA will leave after winning the war? Have you ever heard of any army that has fought a great war that cost it dearly, and then forgo all the prize after winning that war?

I don't think they will, hence the smiley face.

Please enlighten me on this if you have some info that we are all oblivious to.

OK. Pakistan would find a new group to support. A new Pashtun group. Do the same as what we did with the Taliban. America didn't support the Pashtuns, it couldn't, they are foreigners for them, Pakistan has more Pashtun than Afghanistan's. We can infiltrate their society more easily and even gather support.

From the Pashtun lands you can control all of Afghanistan.