Accept Vande Mataram or go to Pakistan

[humblehobbes]

Sorry you can be angry at that but why you want to force Indian Muslims to accept deification of a nation which we Muslims consider as idolatry. And for heaven sake if Muslims do not accept deification of nation that does not mean that they are not patriotic to India.

^^^^^ Who the hell is "you" here? and what makes you think that you can equate a billion people with a buffoon like that Uddhav Thakkarey!!!!
Just because Baitullah Mehsud is frm Pakistan, would it sit well if I took his statement as coming from the mouth of Jana ?

 

[Spring Onion]

MORAL high handed approach of Pakistanis in such matters and teaching us how to be secular is so galling and to find the indians reply to such imbecility is even more pathetic. All they can do is direct us to a couple of Indian newspaper links of Gujarat, Orissa or Babur Masjid... Then spice it up with a couple of Sikh massacre links. Our history is marred with such blemishes.. They are dark spots.. the highlight being on the word Spots

I am waiting for the next Post saying, how thankful they are that Pakistan was created and a couple of Pakistani flags and Grey and Marul's lending chinese support.

All pats on the back and beers on the house..

Duhhh..

Then I guess every discussion on Pakistan should start with a Zaid Hamid Video.. and how Pakistani's generally are(equating him with the rest of the good pakistanis)

Keep aside zaid hamid and instead why dont you give us one single reason why a song which is deification of a nation should be compulsory to sing at schools in India when India has a vast ethnic and religiouse diversity and the song only is depicting the Indians as Hindus

 

[scrumpy]

And no its not just a song. for Indian Hindus it will be ok as you worship dieties but we do not worship dieties.

We? Are you also speaking for this

?

Nobody denies that the original version was offensive. The version adopted as a National Song was suitably modified to remove the offensive parts. The song played a big part in the freedom struggle(yes, yours too) and is hence close to everybody's heart here in India.

Here is a small part of the wikipedia article on Vande Mataram which describes the importance of the song.
--
"Vande Mataram" was the national cry for freedom from British rule during the freedom movement. Large rallies, fermenting initially in Bengal, in the major metropolis of Calcutta, would work themselves up into a patriotic fervour by shouting the slogan "Vande Mataram", or "Hail to the Mother(land)!". The British, fearful of the potential danger of an incited Indian populace, at one point banned the utterance of the motto in public forums, and imprisoned many freedom fighters for disobeying the proscription. Rabindranath Tagore sang Vande Mataram in 1896 at the Calcutta Congress Session held at Beadon Square. Dakhina Charan Sen sang it five years later in 1901 at another session of the Congress at Calcutta. Poet Sarala Devi Chaudurani sang the song in the Benares Congress Session in 1905. Lala Lajpat Rai started a journal called Vande Mataram from Lahore.[2] Hiralal Sen made India's first political film in 1905 which ended with the chant. Matangini Hazra's last words as she was shot to death by the Crown police were Vande Mataram[4]

In 1907, Bhikaiji Cama (1861-1936) created the first version of India's national flag (the Tiranga) in Stuttgart, Germany, in 1907. It had Vande Mataram written on it in the middle band.[5]
--

I believe that no one should be forced to sing or say anything against their wishes. This doesn't make any one better or worse.

However they have been very inconsiderate in issuing a fatwa which goes against the sentiments of the majority of their country men.

I do not believe that their stand is supported by a vast majority of their own community. For a good example, check the youtube link above.

 

[Spring Onion]

^^^^^ Who the hell is "you" here? and what makes you think that you can equate a billion people with a buffoon like that Uddhav Thakkarey!!!!
Just because Baitullah Mehsud is frm Pakistan, would it sit well if I took his statement as coming from the mouth of Jana ?

We are not talking about Thackray we all know what shive sena is so forget about them.

we are talking about vande mataram and why this should be imposed on people when it is creating a tension and also violates religiouse beliefs

 

[toxic_pus]

Uddhav is the village-idiot. However that doesn't absolve him of his intellectual diarrhea.

Personally I don't see why it is a problem for the muslims of India to sing the part that is selected as national song. That part is pretty secular in nature. The religious overtures are in the other parts.

Having said that, I also don't see, why this should be made compulsory in schools. Our National Anthem (Jana Gana Mana) should be enough.

Btw, Jana, I see that ToI is more orange. Now I wonder, which one is the camelion here - you or ToI?

 

[humblehobbes]

Keep aside zaid hamid and instead why dont you give us one single reason why a song which is deification of a nation should be compulsory to sing at schools in India when India has a vast ethnic and religiouse diversity and the song only is depicting the Indians as Hindus

dont teach me about secularism and respecting other religion! Especially not from you who had the nerve to use a statement like "u showed your true Indian Color"

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Forget about Thackray. Just a normal question why this song which is more an invocation to Hindu goddesses should be made compulsory to be sung in schools????And please spare us of wiki its not an authentic source

Well until you prove otherwise I am bound to accept Wiki's translation of Vande Matharam. I was thought the words when I was a kid but as I do not understand hindi I am unable to explain them. So to claim that it is an invocation to a Hindu goddess is at this stage without substance. But taking into account the Islamic doctrine of not bowing to anybody but the Supreme Lord, I will concede that if the words do inspire or call for a bowing down to India or a Goddess as you claim, then Muslim children should be exempt from reciting those words. I certainly would not want my child to attend a school where for example he is told to recite the words from a song which propagates that the Prophet [PBUH] was the last messenger of God or which propagates the eating of beef etc. Whilst India is a secular nation, the religious beliefs of our Muslim population must be respected and as the Holy Q'uran is the basis of the Islamic faith then the teachings of the Holy Q'uran to the Muslim population must be respected with zeal.

To the poster who made the absurd claim that Vande Matharam is opposed by Sikhs , Christians etc in India, please check for the facts before posting here as your claim is simply laughable. The remaining Indian population except for the fatwa now issued by the Muslim leadership recite Vande Matharam with Indian pride. The first time I heard the words was when I visited a Sikh friend's house in Delhi when I was a little kid. Subsequently the word were thought to me by a Christian Indian in Africa.

 

[Spring Onion]

We? Are you also speaking for this [url="

Muslim[/url]?

Nobody denies that the original version was offensive. The version adopted as a National Song was suitably modified to remove the offensive parts. The song played a big part in the freedom struggle(yes, yours too) and is hence close to everybody's heart here in India.

Here is a small part of the wikipedia article on Vande Mataram which describes the importance of the song.
--
"Vande Mataram" was the national cry for freedom from British rule during the freedom movement. Large rallies, fermenting initially in Bengal, in the major metropolis of Calcutta, would work themselves up into a patriotic fervour by shouting the slogan "Vande Mataram", or "Hail to the Mother(land)!". The British, fearful of the potential danger of an incited Indian populace, at one point banned the utterance of the motto in public forums, and imprisoned many freedom fighters for disobeying the proscription. Rabindranath Tagore sang Vande Mataram in 1896 at the Calcutta Congress Session held at Beadon Square. Dakhina Charan Sen sang it five years later in 1901 at another session of the Congress at Calcutta. Poet Sarala Devi Chaudurani sang the song in the Benares Congress Session in 1905. Lala Lajpat Rai started a journal called Vande Mataram from Lahore.[2] Hiralal Sen made India's first political film in 1905 which ended with the chant. Matangini Hazra's last words as she was shot to death by the Crown police were Vande Mataram[4]

In 1907, Bhikaiji Cama (1861-1936) created the first version of India's national flag (the Tiranga) in Stuttgart, Germany, in 1907. It had Vande Mataram written on it in the middle band.[5]
--

I believe that no one should be forced to sing or say anything against their wishes. This doesn't make any one better or worse.

However they have been very inconsiderate in issuing a fatwa which goes against the sentiments of the majority of their country men.

I do not believe that their stand is supported by a vast majority of their own community. For a good example, check the youtube link above.

The issue is not confined to this recent fatwa. The issue was there even before partition.

On the other hand Indian Muslims never refused to sing National Anthem then why to force them to sing this song which is not at all needed when you have national anthem

 

[humblehobbes]

The issue is not confined to this recent fatwa. The issue was there even before partition.

On the other hand Indian Muslims never refused to sing National Anthem then why to force them to sing this song which is not at all needed when you have national anthem

That is because we are the secular Republic of India... We only ask them to sing a patriotic song. We dont force convert them to other religions, or kidnap their teenage daughters to temple where they will be converted, or destroy mosques to the point that none is left in the city.
In fact, we go out of our ways, to bring them into the fold by advocating reservation for minorities and muslims. We have journalists who write for the muslims and their sufferings and discriminations.. Rather than shoving it under the carpet and saying, "hindus in Pakistan?? What are you prattling about... STatistics say that 99.9999 of the hindus left pakistan in 1947. so if there are 10 lakh hindus now, it means they have grown by 10000 percent"

 

[gubbi]

Muslims do not bow to hindu godess durga
you can come up with sugar coated translations but again why Indians are bent upon making this silly song as compulsory to be sung at schools

The National Song version is NOT about Goddess Durga! Re-read that version and show me where it mentions the Goddess? Comprehension problems? (Btw, I can see what kind of thoughts you follow by your not capitalizing the letters, such a pity!)
Who is asking them to bow to Goddess Durga? Sing praises of the country, India, which any sane person refers to by the feminine gender!
Funny," saamne jo hein use log bura kehte hein, jise dekha bhi nahin use..."
Indians can do anything that is protected by the Constitution of India! If our constitution says its ok then its all fine! Theres nothing outsiders can do about it!

Btw you calling our National Song as silly says a lot about your competency!
Shabaash, keep it up.

 

[Khajur]

whats the fuss about it??

First of all, Uddhav Thackeray doesnt own india...he know it well, thats why he never tried to push any muslim to pakistan for not singing Vande Mataram.But u know he has a mouth and freedom of speech to do his chitter chatter form time to time.

So Janaji,dont worry ?
U wont get anymore Mohajirs from india...BTW they werent going to ur city Peshawar in anycase.

Coming back Vande Mataram isnt about religion or religious people...its a patriotic song...also our national song.

Anyone getting all emotional with patriotic feeling wont mind chanting Vande Mataram irrespective of his/her religion...its never a problem during freedom struggle for guys like Bhagat singh Ram Prasad Bismil , Ashfaqulla Khan and many more of different hue ...or in present times for many devout muslims like AR Rehman.At the end of the day nobody is forced to sing if he isnt comfortable.He can also silently pay his respect.

Here AR Rehman singing his version of Vande Mataram

Jai Hind

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Muslims do not bow to hindu godess durga

you can come up with sugar coated translations but again why Indians are bent upon making this silly song as compulsory to be sung at schools

That was a really immature post on your side. Calling Vande Matharam a "silly" song is as offensive to Indians as us calling your national anthem a "silly" tirade. Please do not turn to demeaning our national song when you are unable to submit any mature postings on the issue. Discussion is welcome but please keep it mature. If your intent is simply to bash and insult India and/or Hinduism then your line of thinking will be opposed by most Indians irrespective or religion. You mentioned that you are a journalist previously. If this is the quality of journalism in Pakistan then there remains little hope for its media and your tirades against the ToI is laughable

 

[Peshwa]

Muslims do not bow to hindu godess durga

you can come up with sugar coated translations but again why Indians are bent upon making this silly song as compulsory to be sung at schools

Jana havent you spewed enough hatred and venom against India for the day???

Should we create a job title for you as welll??


If you knew anything about poetry and lieterature.....You would understand that the song simply implies that Bharat Mata is like Durga and Laxmi....basically implying that she is like god to us.....

Instead of looking at the trivial non-sensical argument try to get it in your head that the we consider India to be a "female", a mother....and hence have to compare her to a female entity of god.....
If the song would say Allah instead of "Laxmi or Durga" would it make any sense now....being that most people consider Allah to be male......Sorry in India we respect and honor females and males equally....both as entities of god!!!!

Next point being....none of your business especially being a Pakistani....
Indian Muslims and Hindus respect each others religion......Muslims in India celebrate Ganapathi Visarjan and Holi and the Hindus enjoy eating Biryani on Id, Going to the Haji Ali Durgah and the mosoleaum of the Khjwaja Ajmer baba......
The greatest symbol of Hindu Muslim unity is Sai baba who was a muslim but is worshipped more by Hindus than Muslims!!!
So please when speaking about Muslims....keep them specific to your country!!! Period!!

And just to be clear....you're crossing the line by calling our national songs "silly"......Never has an Indian member criticized or ridiculed a Pakistani anthem......More responsibility is expected from you being a senior member....but looks like you're taking full advantage by hurting Indian sentiments....You're showing your true colors!!!

I expect the MODS to take this seriously!!!

 

[Evil Flare]

My Indian Friends .

You Must see this

all Explained here & why this FATWA is 100% Correct ..

You Cannot Force anything in Secular Country ..

 

[New Shivaji]

What's the problem with these mullah's - Its a national song and the GOI wants them to be sung every day in the schools what's the big deal.

It a song about mother india. Singing about your motherland does not make you unislamic.