33 years since Zia came to power

[sparklingway]

Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the disastrous day that brought Zia ul Haq to power. Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq overthrew a government after a conensus had been reached, sent an elected PM to the gallows in a judicial murder, ruled for 4061 days when he promised a 90 day transition, got us bloodily involved in the soviet war, saw the rise of the Kalalashinkov culture and rise of sectarian terrorism, destroyed our penal and criminal procedural codes and destroyed this country.

Lies, lies and lies:-

 

[T-Faz]

What a travesty, this man initiated almost all the problems that we face today. Words cannot express how angry I get when I look at this man's wicked face. He was a 'weak' soldier, he did not achieve anything noticeable in career. However he had killed a few Palestinians during the Black September incident and won the support of the Arabs and their masters the Americans.

He came to power and the whole country went into a state of regression. We are suffering terribly because of this mans 'Islamization' and his children still haunt our lives today. This man had some of the most corrupt people promoted to position of power. The dumbest men such as Nawaz started their careers under this moron. Fazle Haq sticks out as he was as corrupt as you can get.

His son got a job at BCCI and Zia with Akhtar (I admire him though) made a large amount of money selling the weapons that were supposed to go to the mujahideen. His son is still around shamelessly sticking on to power in various corridors. The whole time he spent as Dictator in Pakistan was one of the darkest eras in our collective history.

May God save us from the seeds that this man sowed.

 

[Gentle Typhoon]

There are many Zia fanboy's in this forum, its an inferiority complex playing itself out. I see this admiration as a thirst to be more powerful amongst the mostly powerless. Many Pakistanis have a fascination to his commanding personality leaving aside his bad side. Half the people advocating, preaching or worshiping Hitler just do it to be e-cool.

In my humble opinion people who dislike someone liking Hitler are worse than those who like Zia Ul Haq.

There is a lot to learn from Hitler, good things -
Majority of what the medical world knows about the brain, brain related problems/diseases, drugs and a lot of other medical advancements were the result of studies done on humans during Hitlers regime.

Majority of technological development all over the world including the development of electronics and computers would have happened so fast had it not been for Hitler and his regime.

Hitler was an ideologist, he had ideas to employ people like Hjalmar Schacht who revived the German economy in a matter of 5 years when the Americans were struggling to get on their knees.

Yes Hitler was a madman. He was patriotic to the point of stupidity. He was obsessed about his race. LOL hitler always had a thing for Indians (British Indians) ? he even offered Dhyan Chand citizenship and to play for Germany, was good friend with Subash Chandra Bose. However is also a bright side to every darkness.

Simply take the case of Raavan. Everyone knows what he did was wrong, but many still idolize him for being a scholar.

Idolizing Hitler for the right reasons makes sense to me. But worshiping Zia ? To him religion > nation.

 

[zagahaga]

Lol Zia bashing? You guy need a life he's probly the only true leader that we have rest are waste.... Hope you liberal find that leader that your wet deems produced ........ LOL..... I mean what has your soo called democratically leaders did so far? Empty promises while there Swiss accounts get bigger and bigger ..... The only people that can fix Pakistan are the ones who are willing to die for there country not some not some Kusra behind the desk..... Ooopssss did I say that?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

What a travesty, this man initiated almost all the problems that we face today. Words cannot express how angry I get when I look at this man's wicked face. He was a 'weak' soldier, he did not achieve anything noticeable in career. However he had killed a few Palestinians during the Black September incident and won the support of the Arabs and their masters the Americans.

He came to power and the whole country went into a state of regression. We are suffering terribly because of this mans 'Islamization' and his children still haunt our lives today. This man had some of the most corrupt people promoted to position of power. The dumbest men such as Nawaz started their careers under this moron. Fazle Haq sticks out as he was as corrupt as you can get.

His son got a job at BCCI and Zia with Akhtar (I admire him though) made a large amount of money selling the weapons that were supposed to go to the mujahideen. His son is still around shamelessly sticking on to power in various corridors. The whole time he spent as Dictator in Pakistan was one of the darkest eras in our collective history.

May God save us from the seeds that this man sowed.

Your feelings are quite understandable. His stay at the helm of affairs in Pakistan was a water-shed in its history. i'd go so far as to say that there is Pakistani history B.Z. ( before Zia) and A.Z. His role in Pakistani history seems to be larger than the Quaid's- though entirely for all wrong reasons.

Ah, the evil that men do lives after them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There are many Zia fanboy's in this forum, its an inferiority complex playing itself out. I see this admiration as a thirst to be more powerful amongst the mostly powerless. Many Pakistanis have a fascination to his commanding personality leaving aside his bad side. Half the people advocating, preaching or worshiping Hitler just do it to be e-cool.

In my humble opinion people who dislike someone liking Hitler are worse than those who like Zia Ul Haq.

There is a lot to learn from Hitler, good things -
Majority of what the medical world knows about the brain, brain related problems/diseases, drugs and a lot of other medical advancements were the result of studies done on humans during Hitlers regime.

Majority of technological development all over the world including the development of electronics and computers would have happened so fast had it not been for Hitler and his regime.

Hitler was an ideologist, he had ideas to employ people like Hjalmar Schacht who revived the German economy in a matter of 5 years when the Americans were struggling to get on their knees.

Yes Hitler was a madman. He was patriotic to the point of stupidity. He was obsessed about his race. LOL hitler always had a thing for Indians (British Indians) ? he even offered Dhyan Chand citizenship and to play for Germany, was good friend with Subash Chandra Bose. However is also a bright side to every darkness.

Simply take the case of Raavan. Everyone knows what he did was wrong, but many still idolize him for being a scholar.

Idolizing Hitler for the right reasons makes sense to me. But worshiping Zia ? To him religion > nation.

Dear Sir,

I want to put on record my strong objection to direct or indirect glorification of Hitler. There is nothing whatsoever in his political or military history that can justify anything except condemnation, in the strongest terms, as one of the greatest criminals and tyrannical dictators of history.

Please do not do this again, as your arguments in favour of this maniac can be refuted, but you may come in for serious criticism as well.

This is a polite statement to the effect that a repetition will call for immediate and strong censure. Freedom of speech has its limits; in my opinion, you have overstepped the limit.

Sincerely,

 

[Fracker]

gr8 Zia Bashing thread. I am not sure why people bash him for Klashinkof culture? As This culture was in Tribal areas from whole century. Where people have armors at their home. And FATA region was like as from the day of independence where we saw many so-called dramatic leaders or military rulers. Yet, Zia is blamed for this. & it was not Zia alone, 4 major muslim nations jointly announced "Jihad" against soviats. And no body can deny about the threat which Pakistan had that time from Soviat.

I understand why Indians hate him (because He started helping Kashmiri people), but don't know why Pakistani hates him more then anyone.. As i feel, he was better then all democratic/milita governments came after wards. Loans, Corruption, weak governance has brought us to the level this. Where we are now against those who were previously working for us.

Ps: This doesn't means he was good leader or something, But comparing the one who came afterward, he was better.

Idolizing Hitler for the right reasons makes sense to me. But worshiping Zia ? To him religion > nation.

Now what this means? To any muslim Religion > State, and also no muslim can worship to any one unlike you hindus where u can worship anyone, even a DOG

 

[Tayyab1796]

Zia was a disaster , Zia and Zardari share some similarities , both are known for breaking promises , the latter even declines to implement the written agreement in front of the whole media . Both gained from the assassination of Bhuttos . Both had/have dubious friends .

 

[Bang Galore]

Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the disastrous day that brought Zia ul Haq to power. Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq overthrew a government after a conensus had been reached, sent an elected PM to the gallows in a judicial murder, ruled for 4061 days ]

Still ruling ! 12053 days & counting.

 

[Bang Galore]

gr8 Zia Bashing thread.

Now what this means? To any muslim Religion > State, and also no muslim can worship to any one unlike you hindus where u can worship anyone, even a DOG

Yup right ! You worship Zia & I'll go worship my dog. Not a difficult choice for me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Now what this means? To any muslim Religion > State, and also no muslim can worship to any one unlike you hindus where u can worship anyone, even a DOG

Dear Sir,

Are you seriously saying this, and grossly insulting another religion and its adherents, good or bad thought either may be? I want to be sure before proceeding further. Please note that the intent to insult seems to be present in your approach and your attitude, therefore, in your mind rather than on paper; in the words that you use, there is nothing of serious content. So it is only if you intend an insult that you can be reported, if you write this out of ignorance, there is of course latitude. Which is it? insult or ignorance?

Sincerely,

 

[Jazzbot]

Zia, yet another nasty dark spot at the face of Pakistan, father of most of today's problems, a power hungry, extremely islamist idiologist, father of talibanization and klashankof culture..

He, after bhutto and family (bb and zardari), is worst leader Pakistan ever had.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Zia was a disaster , Zia and Zardari share some similarities , both are known for breaking promises , the latter even declines to implement the written agreement in front of the whole media . Both gained from the assassination of Bhuttos . Both had/have dubious friends .

Dear Sir,

The similarities you have pointed out certainly bring out the humorous aspects of the situation. However, beyond a smile or two, we cannot take the joke further; as you will surely appreciate, the worst elected civilian representative (and Zardari is neither elected nor representative, since he is not the Prime Minister) is better than the best military dictator.

As things stand, Zardari faces opposition from within his own party, and from his own Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. This kind of opposition would not have been possible in the case of a dictator; these checks and balances are precisely the benefits of democracy, and you are already enjoying the benefits. Without any doubt there will be many more to come, although you will be handicapped by those more severely handicapped who look for guides and hand-holding elite masters to lead them through civic life.

Enjoy your democracy and work to extend it and make it permanently sustainable; that is all that a well-wisher can hope for you. All the heavy lifting will have to be done, as is only appropriate, by the sovereign people of Pakistan.

Sincerely,

 

[tnt123]

Zia saved this country from total annihilation. You should be thanking him not abusing him.

At that time in 1978 the civilian morons were rigging elections and murdering each other in public, the country was dissolving into chaos and abyss.

Without his stern measures there would be no Pakistan today.

 

[vsdoc]

While I understand the perfectly human reaction of a nation and its people to find a national scapegoat for the mess it finds itself in, I think the luxury of distance and time and the absence of direct stakes in the issue would allow most to see that no one man can change the course of a nation.

No one man can magically hypnotize 170 million humans to do his bidding. It may be that such a man is in a position of power, but you cannot change the throb of the heart, the rationality of intelligent thought, or the morality of the soul of a nation if it went against the very ethos and being of the collective people. People get the leaders they want. The leaders they need. The leaders they deserve.

There can never be political vacuum in any group or society, and more often than not, the one who rises above the others, does so to fill a perceived void. And the leader rises from amongst the people he goes forward to lead. He is never an import, never an inorganic hire. So for Pakistanis to blame Zia for all thier ills, is similar to Germans being all apologetic and contrite about Hitler and the post-war generation wanting to wash that stain permanently from their national psyche by magical disassociation and villification.

Its simply not done, nor is it possible. Yes, the hand that guides, the voice that beguiles, the will that dominates, can make you do only so much and no more. Beyond that it is each and every individual of the time to introspect, be honest, and lend a shoulder to carry some of the burden of collective national blame.

Just as post WWI German wounded national pride and prussian supremist psyche was fertile ground ripe for a Hitler to happen, so too was post 1971 Pakistan fertile ground for a Zia and his form of rebound Islamism to happen.

IMHO, that is the bitter pill that young post-Bangladesh Pakistanis today find difficult to swallow.

Cheers, Doc