31 killed as militants attack Pakistan army checkpost

[muse]

It is shocking to there is no outrage among Pakistanis. Its not the headlines anymore.
Look at this site. It looks like this event never even happened.
The Express Tribune – Latest Breaking Pakistan News, Business, Life, Style, Cricket, Videos, Comments

How many times can you be shocked? It's common now - Islam zindabad

 

[KRAIT]

Afghanistan cannot handle the belt themselves nor do they deserve the belt. The belt is full of Pakistanis not Afghans.

Then why the fuss and hatred against them ?

 

[Safriz]

Afghanistan cannot handle the belt themselves nor do they deserve the belt. The belt is full of Pakistanis not Afghans.

what Pakistanis?

My dad was with FWO and i have extensively traveled those areas in 80s,and those were peaceful times...
I don't remember the area but it was Afridi tribal area and GOP wanted to build a rod there..It would have benefited the whole population but the locals wont agree...Eventually GOP had to abandon the idea..same is the story of many proposed development programs in these areas..
Give them electricity and they wont pay bills..If asked to pay they will blow up the towers...
The least collection of utility bills is from Tribal areas..they want facilities then either create hurdles or don't pay up...
What can you do with people this difficult? No wonder even the British didn't try to rule them they are unmanageable...

Now i dont have problem with whatever they want to do with themselves in their areas but its unfair that they can freely roam the rest of the country as any other Pakistani as they don't follow Pakistani law..

Then why the fuss and hatred against them ?

Its them who think they are perfect while they are not...
The rest of the country has been bearing them since 1947 and still is...

 

[KingMamba]

Then why the fuss and hatred against them ?

Only safriz has it out for them.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Afghanistan cannot handle the belt themselves nor do they deserve the belt. The belt is full of Pakistanis not Afghans.

your Afghan friends wont like what you just wrote
although we do consider the belt to be part of Pakistan but Afghan governments never accepted that right from British raj. and also almost all tribes have relations on both sides of the border

 

[KingMamba]

what Pakistanis?

My dad was with FWO and i have extensively traveled those areas in 80s,and those were peaceful times...
I don't remember the area but it was Afridi tribal area and GOP wanted to build a rod there..It would have benefited the whole population but the locals wont agree...Eventually GOP had to abandon the idea..same is the story of many proposed development programs in these areas..
Give them electricity and they wont pay bills..If asked to pay they will blow up the towers...
The least collection of utility bills is from Tribal areas..they want facilities then either create hurdles or don't pay up...
What can you do with people this difficult? No wonder even the British didn't try to rule them they are unmanageable...

Now i dont have problem with whatever they want to do with themselves in their areas but its unfair that they can freely roam the rest of the country as any other Pakistani as they don't follow Pakistani law..



Its them who think they are perfect while they are not...
The rest of the country has been bearing them since 1947 and still is...

Safriz Qaide azam made the deal with them and I am pretty sure it involved free electricity. Anyway this is 65 years after the fact and now they are just starting to be brought under federal control so they will be initial hassles. I agree with you on some points but will not mention them here because last time I did some MQM supporter got all riled up accusing me of sectarianism, ironically. That being said the majority of them do consider themselves Pakistani and if they didn't they would not have fought against the Afghans in 62 and they would not be the main advocates for throwing out Afghan refugess today. Even on this forum there are many patriotic members from the belt.

your Afghan friends wont like what you just wrote
although we do consider the belt to be part of Pakistan but Afghan governments never accepted that right from British raj. and also almost all tribes have relations on both sides of the border

Irfan Bhai, I am an American Pakistani so naturally I support Pakistan's position on the Durand line. Afghanistan can yell all they want but nobody supports their view of the borders. The only option they really have is force and their army isn't built for that.

 

[KRAIT]

@Safriz Taali ek haath se nahin bajti.

 

[muse]

Safriz:

All the points you have made are legitimate - they may appear backward, but they will always try and squeeze something for free - but that's not novel or unique to them - Integrating the Pashtun has always taken time - but look around in Pakistan, is it other than the truth that once educated and settled, that they are amongst the most progressive of peoples in Pakistan?

One of the great disservices done to Pashtun is to keep them in their tribal identities - As they are integrated in to an economy and a SECULAR polity, where there is the perception of fair play, it will allow people the freedom to no longer be clutching to the politics of identity.

But I guess all of this must await a SECULAR Pakistan, as envisioned by the Quaid e Azam

 

[Armstrong]

@Pukhtoon : Rora, sawaal poochaa thaa tujhee sehh; whats the situation on the ground in Peshawar ? How are the civilians throughout the city holding up ? Is the security beefed up more or are we still complacent ?

 

[KingMamba]

Safriz:

All the points you have made are legitimate - they may appear backward, but they will always try and squeeze something for free - but that's not novel or unique to them - Integrating the Pashtun has always taken time - but look around in Pakistan, is it other than the truth that once educated and settled, that they are amongst the most progressive of peoples in Pakistan?

One of the great disservices done to Pashtun is to keep them in their tribal identities - As they are integrated in to an economy and a SECULAR polity, where there is the perception of fair play, it will allow people the freedom to no longer be clutching to the politics of identity.

But I guess all of this must await a SECULAR Pakistan, as envisioned by the Quaid e Azam

You forgot patriotic, they are also amongst the most patriotic. Pakistan was not even fully made yet and they were off fighting Indians for kashmir. Although I disagree with you about Quaid's vision as I believe he changed his opinion later on his life. @Armstrong once explained why he doesn't support secularism in Pakistan and he put it quite nicely. Armstrong yaar you still hold that position??
Anyway I believe secularism will not work in Pakistan as it does here in the US or other western countries.

 

[RabzonKhan]

May the brave souls rest in peace.

It is shocking to there is no outrage among Pakistanis. Its not the headlines anymore.
Look at this site. It looks like this event never even happened.
The Express Tribune – Latest Breaking Pakistan News, Business, Life, Style, Cricket, Videos, Comments

Jayron, the news is still on the front page(Link), 5 or 6 hours ago it was headline news, they now even have an editorial on it: Attack on check post

State institutions owe public an accounting of accepting drones and need to take ownership of war against militancy.

By Editorial
Published: February 3, 2013

 

[KS]

Why is that the Pathans are successful in plotting the rebel attacks while a similar community the Baloch are looking hapless ?

p.s: Purely a question out of curiosity as both communities have almost same martial traditions/incessant fighting/hold weapons etc. Is it because there is a lack of strategic planning among the Baloch or as a community their numbers are roughly only one fourth of that of the Pathans or does terrain the differentiating factor ?

sir but our policy to not oppose drone is causing deaths to the tribals too

their sister, father mother dies and we the pakistan army is sitting in the comfort of their luxurious office and doing nothing, something which will disappoint and anger any human alive

The drone attacks are far more precise and accurate than the PAF and artillery attack which are more messy with plenty more collateral damage.

source : the tribals themselves.

 

[Safriz]

Safriz Qaide azam made the deal with them and I am pretty sure it involved free electricity. Anyway this is 65 years after the fact and now they are just starting to be brought under federal control so they will be initial hassles. I agree with you on some points but will not mention them here because last time I did some MQM supporter got all riled up accusing me of sectarianism, ironically. That being said the majority of them do consider themselves Pakistani and if they didn't they would not have fought against the Afghans in 62 and they would not be the main advocates for throwing out Afghan refugess today. Even on this forum there are many patriotic members from the belt.



Irfan Bhai, I am an American Pakistani so naturally I support Pakistan's position on the Durand line. Afghanistan can yell all they want but nobody supports their view of the borders. The only option they really have is force and their army isn't built for that.

I am on about tribals,not Pushtoons in general...
Its another thing that Pushtoon Pushtoon bahi bhai..No matter if their ethnic brother is a murderer,they will stick for them..
Thais medieval mentality still exists even among the very educated pushtoons....
You cant talk to them against an unknown imaginary Pushtoon even if your are right..
try it and report back..you will get loads of abuse and even threats..

Its this tribal ethnic mentality that makes many tribals supporters of terrorists.Kill one and a dozen sympathizers rise up for revenge...

 

[KRAIT]

I sometimes feel that why people blame extremists which are created due to lack of justice and proper treatment. I don't like Maoists, but I know what made them pick up weapons. I can't blame Tribals for everything, because the nation that they trusted and thought will protect them, actually served them on plate to Foreigners.

I don't say that Tribals are bad or good. If one looks at development of extremism in a region, one can see the actual reasons and the real culprits.

Unfortunately, people don't try to find those and just cut the branches instead of finding the roots and uprooting it.

State is equally responsible for the security situation. Lets not put entire blame on entire Tribal belt. This is the same generalization we hate when rest of the world generalizes us based on few bad apples in a community, tribe, religious groups etc.

 

[Safriz]

You forgot patriotic, they are also amongst the most patriotic. Pakistan was not even fully made yet and they were off fighting Indians for kashmir. Although I disagree with you about Quaid's vision as I believe he changed his opinion later on his life. @Armstrong once explained why he doesn't support secularism in Pakistan and he put it quite nicely. Armstrong yaar you still hold that position??
Anyway I believe secularism will not work in Pakistan as it does here in the US or other western countries.

That was 60 years ago..you cant milk it for eternity..simple..
In their current status the tribals are one of the most messed up people on the planet...
The world powers have converged to fight terrorism in their areas..Drones are firing in their areas...
So yes there is a real problem..lets not try to hide it under the carpet...