27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[PakFactor]

Wow. Interesting twist. I never thought of it as such. So the IAF intentionally lost 2 aircraft + chopper for this plan to execute?

Didn’t the Nazis burned down their own parliament to start their plan against Jews? Human beings are capable of any deceit as long their goals are achieved.

 

[MastanKhan]

Wow. Interesting twist. I never thought of it as such. So the IAF intentionally lost 2 aircraft + chopper for this plan to execute?

Hi,

They could have lost a couple more without blinking an eye---.

Mr. Modi had short term plans and has long term plans against pakistan---for both of them to be implemented---he had to test the pakistani waters---.

The pakistani response was supposed to be muted as promised by the americans---but Paf had to retaliate due to public pressure---. But the response was muted---and then the Paf and Pak military ISPR blundered into giving all operational details that no enemy could expect.

That information was the gravy or you may call it topping on top of the desert---.

It was so immature on part of the Paf and ISPR---to present all the operational secrets on a platter to the enemy giving out all operational details---and then talking about the short comings of the enemy on public forums---.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Hi,

The indians did not pay 'heavy price' on the 27th---. 27th was a setup to start with to justify the immediate procurement of the Rafale for what PM Modi's future planning---.

It was all pre planned---.

If Paf had not responded as it did---then IAF was satisfied with what it had---and if the Paf did as it did---then the PM Modi's ready made statement was the answer---.

You do know that Rafael deal was in process since 2015 right?
Tell us what plan did IAF execute to purchase mammoth 250+ Su-30 which was an over kill for what PAF had a decade ago.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Hi so isn’t it better not to replace that specific single mig21 with something or related to their squad as you mentioned yourself about retiring rest of them in 2022 you mind mentioning that with a link of retiring all their MiGs in 2022 & what kind of fighter they are replacing with these retiring MiGs as 2022 is round the corner
Thank you

Their plan is to remove mig-21 and mig-27 and replace them with 2 squadron of su-30 and two of Tejas .
https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/nation/mig-21-a-relic-that-continues-to-fly-623650
But Tejas is not ready yet so they had to start with su-30 which is ready.

Pardon me for using English slang, but what I meant was: The IAF could buy more Rafales (very potent, armed with Meteor BVR) or order extra Tejas (83 already on order). Cheaper to run/maintain than the Su-30MKIs which are very costly to run/maintain. What is the sense in buying a bloody huge and costly Su-30MKI which proved to be useless on 27 Feb 2019 and can't be deployed at Srinagar for quick-reaction response?

Are you sure Rafale is cheaper to maintain than Su-30 ,the initial price is at least twice as much and tejas is not as potent as so-30mki.
By the way what happened on 27 February 2019 that indicate su-30 is useless

 

[Khanivore]

Their plan is to remove mig-21 and mig-27 and replace them with 2 squadron of su-30 and two of Tejas .
https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/nation/mig-21-a-relic-that-continues-to-fly-623650
But Tejas is not ready yet so they had to start with su-30 which is ready.

Funny that now it's you who is quoting Indian papers when you earlier rubbished my response when I quoted Indian papers. Isn't that kind of hypocritical?

Are you sure Rafale is cheaper to maintain than Su-30 ,the initial price is at least twice as much and tejas is not as potent as so-30mki.

That's what I gathered from what the Indian papers said.

By the way what happened on 27 February 2019 that indicate su-30 is useless

You really need me to tell you what happened on 27 Feb '19? Come on, you have access to everything just as I do. Do your own research for a bit.

 

[Suriya]

.

maybe they don't want any more Rafale and you very well knew Tejas have problem and they need to improve many thing about it before it can become something serious.

1. IAF has already placed an order of 83 LCA to replace aging Mig21.

2. This 12 Su30 have been ordered as they replace 10 Su30s lost over the years and 12 is yearly capacity of HAL's Su30 assembly line. So IAF ordered 12 new ones.

 

[Khanivore]

It was so immature on part of the Paf and ISPR---to present all the operational secrets on a platter to the enemy giving out all operational details---and then talking about the short comings of the enemy on public forums---.

You're not alone in that thought, I too was a bit baffled as to why PAF felt they should expose the inner working details of their operation so publicly, revealing details on assets, capability and strategy. Highly odd I thought to myself because, if it was the Israeli air force, you would never hear about their operational capability -- only perhaps in a much minimal and controlled sense, with further details possibly revealed decades later. That's how Israel would've handled it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Funny that now it's you who is quoting Indian papers when you earlier rubbished my response when I quoted Indian papers. Isn't that kind of hypocritical?

did I said it it is proof , you asked me from where I heard they want to replace and its there .
and that time you provided two source and both of them said different things

You really need me to tell you what happened on 27 Feb '19? Come on, you have access to everything just as I do. Do your own research for a bit.

I asked you what happened that indicate Su-30 is useless?
the bold part is important

1. IAF has already placed an order of 83 LCA to replace aging Mig21.

you knew there are issues that are supposed to be fixed in Mark 2 varriant , your airforce only accepted initial batch so let the project continue
https://www.business-standard.com/a...rce-to-buy-tejas-mark-1-a-115081201951_1.html

so for me unles Mark II come out , Mark 1that you lready bought and Mark 1A are only saving HAL

 

[Khanivore]

did I said it it is proof , you asked me from where I heard they want to replace and its there .
and that time you provided two source and both of them said different things

That was not me asking you, but nevertheless you did source Indian paper. And yes, I was showing what was reported by 2 prominent Indian papers, and I drew my opinion and you drew your clouded judgement. But now you yourself source Indian papers.

I asked you what happened that indicate Su-30 is useless?
the bold part is important

You 656 pages to read up. Get busy with it, lad!

you knew there are issues that are supposed to be fixed in Mark 2 varriant , your airforce only accepted initial batch so let the project continue... so for me unles Mark II come out , Mark 1that you lready bought and Mark 1A are only saving HAL

HAL is assembling Su-30MKIs and have capacity to churn out 12 per year, right? So with 83 Mark 1As on order, HAL will be extremely busy, plus the Indian "experts" think the Mark 1A's "capability that would give it a clear combat edge over Pakistan’s entire fighter fleet, and most of China’s as well...". So you my friend are underestimating the Mark 1A.

Hey, has Iran shown any interest in Tejas Mk 1A or Mk 2? Frankly speaking, the Iranian air force does seem dangerously malnourished. Ripe for a US ambush at any given time. Might be time for you to exile yourself in the great Saffron Bharat.

 

[Hack-Hook]

That was not me asking you, but nevertheless you did source Indian paper. And yes, I was showing what was reported by 2 prominent Indian papers, and I drew my opinion and you drew your clouded judgement. But now you yourself source Indian papers.


You 656 pages to read up. Get busy with it, lad!


HAL is assembling Su-30MKIs and have capacity to churn out 12 per year, right? So with 83 Mark 1As on order, HAL will be extremely busy, plus the Indian "experts" think the Mark 1A's "capability that would give it a clear combat edge over Pakistan’s entire fighter fleet, and most of China’s as well...". So you my friend are underestimating the Mark 1A.

Hey, has Iran shown any interest in Tejas Mk 1A or Mk 2? Frankly speaking, the Iranian air force does seem dangerously malnourished. Ripe for a US ambush at any given time. Might be time for you to exile yourself in the great Saffron Bharat.

Iran even if wanted can't show any interest on mig-21 or jf-17 or su-30 of f-35 or f-22.
Twenty year ago in our parliament some guys reach to the conclusion that if our air force want new toys to play with they must build them themselves.

And you posted two source that contradicted each other.

 

[Khanivore]

Iran even if wanted can't show any interest on mig-21 or jf-17 or su-30 of f-35 or f-22.
Twenty year ago in our parliament some guys reach to the conclusion that if our air force want new toys to play with they must build them themselves.

Twenty years later...

And you posted two source that contradicted each other.

Elaborate please because Indian papers always tend to contradict each other.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Twenty years later...


Elaborate please because Indian papers always tend to contradict each other.

one stated 7 crash and one 9 crash and about 20 years unles they abolish the previous one it'll be in effect

 

[krash]

1948 - Pakistani regulars in disguise as guerrillas invaded Kashmir

Pakistani regulars were famously late to the scene, as documented by a few dozen independent sources. It's been the better part of the century and the Kashmiris still haven't stood down. Wonder when will India learn that even its rhetoric has failed in Kashmir?

1965 - Aggressive patrolling in Rann of Katch, operation Gibraltar, operation grand slam?
1971 - 3rd Dec PAF did a preemptive strikes on IAFs 11 bases..

If Pakistani covert ops in Kashmir were the "initiation" of 65 then Indian covert ops in East Pakistan were the "initiation" of 71 (plenty by Indian sources out there). If the PAF crossing into India was the "initiation" of 71 then the Indian Army crossing over into Lahore sector was the "initiation" of 65. Go ahead, pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, Rann of Kutch was done and dusted before anything happened in Kashmir.

"The Award by the Arbitration Tribunal vindicated Pakistan's position. India then shifted the center of gravity of operations to the Northern Areas."

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/rann-of-kutch.htm

ps: I don't understand how the very limited skirmishes in 99 were ever a war. Perhaps you could explain it to us in a more appropriate thread.

Dear @HRK why negative rating? Putting your point is against the forum rules?

When the "point" is designed to be dishonest and disingenuous, negative ratings are well deserved.


Let us all now get back to the topic of the thread. Won't be tolerating any Off Topic posts from here onward.

 

[Bossman]

1. IAF has already placed an order of 83 LCA to replace aging Mig21.

2. This 12 Su30 have been ordered as they replace 10 Su30s lost over the years and 12 is yearly capacity of HAL's Su30 assembly line. So IAF ordered 12 new ones.

Like your previous indigenous effort, Tejas is likely to go straight to junkyard from the factory.

 

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