What's new

22 Indian security personnel killed in Naxal attack in Chhattisgarh

Not the first and wont be the last, remember Sri Lanka .......

INDIA'S 'VIETNAM MOMENT': THE ILL-ADVISED WAR THAT ENDED IN HUMILIATION

h
ttps://www.ozy.com/true-and-stories/indias-vietnam-moment-the-ill-advised-war-that-ended-in-humiliation/81702/
 
. .
Indian army should hire Bangladesh army as mercineries and deploy them at critical areas of India to provide security for example : J&k, maoist rebels infested areas, LOC, LAC and offcourse as security guards for PM and president of india.

I mean india's biggest military victory came from the shoulders of Bangladeshi military ( then guerrilla) forces why not repeat the try and tested method?


Pakistan and China keeps b1tch slapping Indians so bad Indians might start a war with Bangladesh just so they can win at something for once lol
50 million bangladeshis treat BSF as revolving doors. True some get shot at border, but even once in a while people do get hit by revolving doors.

So i repeat, if 50 million bangladeshis can treat the BSF like revolving doors, what makes you think that they will beat bangladesh?
 
Last edited:
.
So far we have not seen long range sniper rifles ( or even scope equipped hunting rifles ) with the Naxalites. Naxalites have been seen with high quality vintage civilian hunting rifles looted from hunters which can be used for sniping, but these are all with iron sights and not equipped with scopes. India does not import civilian hunting scopes anymore so access to these are limited . Even if the Naxalites did get modern hunting scopes, fitting and zeroing these on to a vintage rifle is technically very difficult. Additionally snipers need to practice on a range and the sound of range practice training would attract the attention of the security forces.

If the Naxalites have snipers, these would be using looted sniping rifles but of what type is unclear.
The security forces may be using Dragunov SVD, Steyr SSG 69 type rifles but these are used mainly by the Indian Army. The local district reserve police may have dedicated snipers.

It is possible that some hunters, who are sufficiently competent in long range hunting shots, may have joined the Naxalites, and they may simply be using vintage high quality civilian hunting rifles with accurate iron sights. But hunting has long since been banned in India, so the capabilities of civilians in hunting rifles is practically non-existent.
In fact overall India, which once had an enthusiastic legal civilian gun ownership, has practically lost all the civilian capabilities in firearms proficiency. Civilian competency is restricted to a few dozen professional competition shooters for international events ( Olympics etc, ). Due to restrictive laws all the civilian firearms competency is with criminals and terrorists.

But what I am saying is pure conjecture. So far there is no open source photographic confirmation showing Naxalites equipped with sniping rifles.
@Vapnope

Continuing my post above, below is the link to the common type of so-called "sporting rifle " issued to elite, and politically connected civilians in India . The common law abiding Indian civilian can only dream of possessing this rifle which is issued to the rich and powerful, and politically connected. The common retired Indian Army jawan or retired police constable can neither afford this rifle nor will ever be issued a license for it.
It is a lot different in Pakistan and I thank my stars we live in country with a far liberal licensing and gun ownership policy.


ba9415cc805fa3400eeb565841666686.jpg

If you look at the specifications, these are hilarious. The range is only 275 meters and there are only two sight options, 91 meters and 100 meters. It has a Lee Enfield action with rear locking lugs and cartridges are round nosed, rimmed ( ancient ! ) cartridges. Because of rear locking , and "cock on close" bolt cocking mechanism , the action develops a headspace making the rifle unsafe to fire, unless serviced by a gunsmith. Luckily because of a paucity of ammunition these rifles are for used for celebratory firing or the regular communal carnage against unarmed victims . So headspace is not a problem.
There is no scope rail, so the rifles cannot be fitted with optical sighting systems.
The rifle barrel isn't even blued but painted black in common enamel paint.
By comparison a Darra made bolt action sporting rifle is far superior, even though these are hand made in a "cottage industry" style .
Pakistani bolt action rifles use Mauser ( K-98 ) front lug locking "cock on open" actions, and use Spritzer type smokeless powder jacketed rounds. These give muzzle velocities in excess of 3200 ft/sec.
Though nowhere comparable to a Remington, or Winchester in terms of longevity ( a Winchester rifling will survive thousands of rounds ), the performance, fit, form, and finish of most of the Darra "copy" rifles matches their factory made foreign originals. Most important of all these rifles can be fitted with scopes and are used as sniping rifles ( unfortunately by the "bad guys " in Pakistan). See the ( Link )
For comparison the Winchester Model 70 is linked here ( Link )
@PanzerKiel
 
Last edited:
. .
@Vapnope

Continuing my post above, below is the link to the common type of so-called "sporting rifle " issued to elite, and politically connected civilians in India . The common law abiding Indian civilian can only dream of possessing this rifle which is issued to the rich and powerful, and politically connected. The common retired Indian Army jawan or retired police constable can neither afford this rifle nor will ever be issued a license for it.
It is a lot different in Pakistan and I thank my stars we live in country with a far liberal licensing and gun ownership policy.


ba9415cc805fa3400eeb565841666686.jpg

If you look at the specifications, these are hilarious. The range is only 275 meters and there are only two sight options, 91 meters and 100 meters. It has a Lee Enfield action with rear locking lugs and cartridges are round nosed, rimmed ( ancient ! ) cartridges. Because of rear locking , and "cock on close" bolt cocking mechanism , the action develops a headspace making the rifle unsafe to fire, unless serviced by a gunsmith. Luckily because of a paucity of ammunition these rifles are for used for celebratory firing or the regular communal carnage against unarmed victims . So headspace is not a problem.
There is no scope rail so the rifles cannot be fitted with optical sighting systems.
The rifle barrel isn't even blued but painted black in common enamel paint.
By comparison a Darra made bolt action sporting rifle is far superior, even though these are hand made in a "cottage industry" style .
Pakistani bolt action rifles use Mauser ( K-98 ) front lug locking "cock on open" actions, and use Spritzer type smokeless powder jacketed rounds. These give muzzle velocities in excess of 3200 ft/sec.
Though nowhere comparable as a Remington, or Winchester in terms of longevity ( a Winchester rifling will survive thousands of rounds ) the performance, fit, form, and finish of most of the Darra "copy" rifles matches their factory made foreign originals. Most important of all these rifles can be fitted with scopes and are used as sniping rifles ( unfortunately by the "bad guys " in Pakistan). See the ( Link )
For comparison the Winchester Model 70 is linked here ( Link )
Strict gun laws are the reason that India is relatively safe from bloodshed. I am a gun enthusiast however want GoP to regularize gun licences like car license. And yes you are right that Naxalite don't posses any modern weapons and rely on old weapons. Thanks again for another detailed response.
 
.
Interesting . There are 10 AKMs and one INSAS rifle.
Note the obsolete L4A4 ( 1B LMG ) light machine gun captured .
This is a Bren gun ( or Vickers Berthier ), conversion to use 7.62 X 51 mm cartridges, and the magazine is inter-changeable with the FN L1A1 ( Ishapore SLR ).

That is 3 types of ammunition in use.
What is curious is the large number of magazines; about 49, mainly of the AKM type; though there are four 30 round L4A4 magazines. Also why do they have such a large amount of loose ammunition. The security forces would not be carrying their ammunition loose but in magazines. Those captured magazines are most certainly empty. But it is a tedious task stripping out ammunition from a magazine just for a display. This implies the Naxalites may have looted the ammunition from a truck carrying reserve ammunition in sealed containers.

Not sure if this picture really represents all the weapons captured. The press reports claimed more INSAS rifles has been captured.

Thanks for sharing.

Good analysis. Disagree on machine gun because is still an improvement for naxals. Any weapon is useful to them.
 
.
That is 3 types of ammunition in use.
What is curious is the large number of magazines; about 49, mainly of the AKM type; though there are four 30 round L4A4 magazines. Also why do they have such a large amount of loose ammunition. The security forces would not be carrying their ammunition loose but in magazines. Those captured magazines are most certainly empty. But it is a tedious task stripping out ammunition from a magazine just for a display. This implies the Naxalites may have looted the ammunition from a truck carrying reserve ammunition in sealed containers.

Not sure if this picture really represents all the weapons captured. The press reports claimed more INSAS rifles has been captured.
It's very unlikely to have a truck nearby since these are dense jungles and combing ops on a vehicle are not possible. Also, you need to have a heavy duty overland type offroad truck to navigate these terrains which is why you always see CRPF deployed in naxal regions patrolling on foot. I believe the naxals must've emptied those mags to display the ammo

As media reported that Indian forces were planning to launch a search operation, it seems plausible that an ammo truck or storage was looted after the encounter. Do we have seen any sniper with Naxalites?
Naxals don't have snipers but they use scopes mounted on bolt action rifles. It's more like marksman training over sniper training
The local district reserve police may have dedicated snipers
Unlikely. So far, I've only seen CRPF's Cobra commando unit to use snipers...not even the regular CRPF units
 
.
It's very unlikely to have a truck nearby since these are dense jungles and combing ops on a vehicle are not possible. Also, you need to have a heavy duty overland type offroad truck to navigate these terrains which is why you always see CRPF deployed in naxal regions patrolling on foot. I believe the naxals must've emptied those mags to display the ammo


Naxals don't have snipers but they use scopes mounted on bolt action rifles. It's more like marksman training over sniper training
From the pictures it seems that no one was wearing bullet proof vests, No? CRPF do wear Flake jackets in Kashmir though.
 
.
Strict gun laws are the reason that India is relatively safe from bloodshed. I am a gun enthusiast however want GoP to regularize gun licences like car license. And yes you are right that Naxalite don't posses any modern weapons and rely on old weapons. Thanks again for another detailed response.
The pics of naxals equipped with bolt action rifles are really old...times when our police were still using Lee enfields. If you've seen the videos of Sukma naxal attack a few years ago...most of em were using AKs, SLRs, Insas which were captured during previous ambushes or from local police stations. China also pumps in a whole lot of weapons through Nepal border

It's no biggie to get ammo and guns in India. Several web series being featured on Netflix, Amazon Prime showcase the gun culture in UP, Bihar where guns/ammo are manufactured illegally in sweat shops. OFBs originally having a commie culture also have backdoors to support naxal movement

Secondly, when I mentioned these naxals loot guns from police stations or ambushes, they literally loot everything from ammo catridges, boots, BPJs, helmets etc. Naxals have several AKs and Insas in their inventory, ofcourse all Insas captured during attacks or from police stations

A week after Sukma encounter, Maoists release photographs of modern weapons Possessed from CRPF


1617670663726.png



A week after Sukma encounter, Maoists release photographs of modern weapons Possessed from CRPF - Redspark

You can believe all the propaganda posted by your fellow pakistanis that naxals use ancient weapons but that is not really the case anymore
From the pictures it seems that no one was wearing bullet proof vests, No? CRPF do wear Flake jackets in Kashmir though.
CRPF deployed for naxals ops are the least equipped. Also, the humidity is so bad that you can't wear vests and patrol for 100s of kms and weeks together.

Again, I do agree we have lapses on our end since most of these ops are headed by civil officers (IAS/IPS) who have no clue in military ops. All they look for is getting transferred to a better place.

One reason both Andhra & Telangana saw a drastic downfall of their naxal cadres is due to AP police Greyhound units which are their anti-naxal commandos who're significantly well trained and better equipped. The org structure and planning is also robust and is on par with BSF. AP/TG and Orissa were able to largely eliminate naxals ever since BSF took over since they perceived and acted purely as a military op overseen by BSF planners while Greyhounds acted as a special ops support unit
 
. .
Strict gun laws are the reason that India is relatively safe from bloodshed. I am a gun enthusiast however want GoP to regularize gun licences like car license. And yes you are right that Naxalite don't posses any modern weapons and rely on old weapons. Thanks again for another detailed response.

Vapnope,
Indirectly India's gun laws are one reason why Maoists and extreme left wing terrorism thrives.
I am gun enthusiast also , but "strict gun laws" in India (or anywhere) do nothing to make any common person safe.

In India the disadvantaged and weak, such as minorities and lower castes, suffer terribly at the hands of a corrupt fascist communalized police force, and their nexus with fascist militias; who though are poorly armed by any global standard, yet are able to conduct their slaughter with impunity. Whether it is a communal pogrom of Muslims, caste based killings of Dalits , it is the defenseless who die. The militia are armed with licensed weapons, as well as unlicensed ones which are allowed by a "wink and a nod " by the police. The upper caste Hindutva brigade have all the guns. The result is that tribals, and minorities are slaughtered at will. Here is a link that shows you how a caste based militia treats tribals ( Link ). This is a ripe recruiting ground for Maoists who give the tribals that which they cherish most, ...guns

Strict gun laws do nothing to stop innovations . Below is a picture from the Delhi riots in February 2020. ( Link )

Photo caption:
A slingshot believed to have been used to hurl brickbats is seen tied to a railing in the backdrop of charred remains of vehicles set ablaze by rioters during communal violence over the amended citizenship law, in Shiv Vihar area of northeast Delhi.

1617834885944.jpeg

This device can be used to lob crude countrymade bombs as well.

Strict gun laws do nothing to control the use of firearms and violence in India. In fact Pre-partition India had far more lenient gun laws under the British, and the violence was a tiny fraction of what we see today. The British even exempted certain areas and populations from gun licenses altogether. For example, Coorgis, in Southern India were exempt from gun licenses as were Nagas in the North East. The Poojaris hunter gatherers were also allowed muzzle loading guns.
Most princely states had liberal gun owning and license policies, and the Rajas, Nawabs and zamindars , all had small arsenals of hunting weapons. Pre-partition India and Pakistan had a vibrant hunting culture, and the middle class youth grew up reading the exploits of Kenneth Anderson, Jim Corbett, Hugh Allen, Khan Saheb Jamshed Butt. Any person of means would gift his son or daughter an air-rifle when the child turned 12 years of age.
The love for firearms was across religions, and hunters of all faiths had a mutual respect for one another.

After independence Pakistan and India went two different ways on their firearms policy. India became more restrictive slowly taking away the guns from law abiding citizens. The Indian Muslims who remained behind were disarmed first, where post-Partition their licenses were not renewed, and they were asked to surrender their weapons to the nearest police station. If they failed to surrender their weapons these were confiscated, and charges were filed under the Indian Arms Act . The punishment was twelve years rigorous imprisonment. India also disarmed the Coorgis, Poojaris, and various tribal groups though the weapons they had were primitive black powder muzzleloaders. In any case dwelling in dense forests and hills these tribes were no threat to the established order.
The Nagas, Khasis, Garos, Mizos and Bodos were difficult to disarm because they made their weapons themselves. Since these are isolated groups in a sensitive border area the Indian government has not imposed the law with such vigor. See how the Nagas make their guns ( Link )

In the Hindi heartland "cow" belt anything other than muzzle loaders goes. The "cow" belt criminals are least interested in hunting. They need weapons for murder. Tens of thousands of country-made weapons are made each year for crime, communal riots, and caste killings. A bicycle frame can be cut to remove the tubes, and use these as 12 Gauge barrels. These tubes are not strong enough to take modern factory loads, but reduced charge "half brass" paper cartridges work for about a hundred shots before they weaken and burst. Old Truck axles are bored out to take .315 bore rounds. The best part about country-made weapons is that they have no serial numbers, and no ballistic signature since they are unrifled . So it is impossible for a forensic investigator to trace a weapon to a murder, or communal killing. Being dirt cheap these are "use and throw" and after widespread use during a communal riot are simply disposed off by melting them in one of the hundreds of arc furnaces owned by scrap dealers.

Here is a video that shows how these country-made weapons are made ( Link )

This is the reason Maoists thrive. The under-trodden and oppressed flock to them looking for protection, believing in the Maoist dictum.

"Political power flows from the barrel of the gun."
@PanzerKiel
 
Last edited:
. . .
Pakistan and China keeps b1tch slapping Indians so bad Indians might start a war with Bangladesh just so they can win at something for once lol

Not funny. Time to learn something new.

The last time they tried, they failed miserably.

India-Bangladesh border battle

"... 16 Indian border guards were killed in the clash at a border outpost in Kurigram. "
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom