1965 war by international & Indian observers.

[Xeric]

Yes. And India won in both those - because India achieved her aims.

But Pakistan did not achieve the aims of the acts of war it started, and therefore by any definition, they lost.

Did you see ignored you when you quoted my post previously?

Anywaz, i was referring to the dates/time frame of initiation of wars/conflicts between Pakistan and India, not who won what and how. It's the way you people like to mold standards that is lame. This post (1965 war by international & Indian observers. | Page 2) of mine will be mighty helpful in explaining what i said:

"i mean, we get it. The Sun revolves around India.

When it comes to Siachen, it's the Simla Agreement you like, not the 1949 Karachi Agreement

When it's the Siachen Conflict, you start liking 1949 Karachi Agreement because then it's last paragraph suites you.

When it's the Kashmir issue, choice of majority population doesnt count, but when it's Gurdaspur, it's the other way round.

When it's the 1965 War, you cherry pick two operations and count that as the war, and leave the actual war aside.

But when it comes to 1971 War, you pin point the dates as 3 December 1971 when we preempted and not the activities at your side since the very start of 1971!

You stupid or what?"

 

[Tipu7]

India did not attack East Pakistan with much force in 1965 though.

Define ''MUCH'' force ...........?? How ''MUCH'' force India was Hiding??

 

[ayesha.a]

and what you accomplished by accomplishing that goal.................?

Ask your army, which has launched several unsuccesful counter attacks to retake Siachen. Musharaff himself has commanded a unit in 1987, trying to retake Siachen from India. All attempts failed of course.

If you want to know the advantage of occupying high terrain in mountain warfare, again, google is your friend.

BTW, there was another accomplishment as well - Pakistan was trying to persuade the international community that the region belonged to Pakistan, by organizing mountaineering expeditions there. It was called "oropolitics". All such pathetic stunts and oropolitics ended when the Indian army arrived.

Oropolitics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[untitled]

......

Don't you think you are clutching at straws now? Your question has been answered, admit it and move on, instead of clinging on to a lost argument.

Lol at your weird childish logic. I just proved to you by examples from around the world that nations from around the world celebrate their victories and honor their brave every year. They don't wake up from a slumber 50 years later and say lets celebrate our defeat as victory. It has been 50 years no else cares to remember so lets fool everyone.

If it had been a victory you would have been celebrating it every year because you had just three years ago received a spanking from your northern neighbour. To use your lame crickiting analogy a poor batsman has lot to celebrate when he is finally of the mark. But you guys did not.

Now you can enjoy this victory of your arguments over mine like your victory in 65

Regards

 

[Tipu7]

Ask your army, which has launched several unsuccesful counter attacks to retake Siachen. Musharaff himself has commanded a unit in 1987, trying to retake Siachen from India. All attempts failed of course.

If you want to know the advantage of occupying high terrain in mountain warfare, again, google is your friend.

BTW, there was another accomplishment as well - Pakistan was trying to persuade the international community that the region belonged to Pakistan, by organizing mountaineering expeditions there. It was called "oropolitics". All such pathetic stunts and oropolitics ended when the Indian army arrived.

Oropolitics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't tell me stories which I am listening from decades.
Mention me what India ''accomplished'' by ''accomplishing'' its goals in Siachin.............?

 

[Soulspeek]

Here you go......

Indo-Pakistan War of 1965
The war was initiated by Pakistan who since the defeat of India by China in 1962 had come to believe that Indian military would be unable or unwilling to defend against a quick military campaign in Kashmir, and because the Pakistani government was becoming increasingly alarmed by Indian efforts to integrate Kashmir within India. There was also a perception that there was widespread popular support within for Pakistani rule and that the Kashmiri people were disatisfied with Indian rule.

BBC ON THIS DAY | 6 | 1965: Indian Army invades W Pakistan
Gibraltar, Grand Slam and war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
Kashmir and the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War | Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training
http://thynkfeed.com/remembering-indo-pak-1965-war-everthing-you-need-to-know-about-the-war/

Internet is choc-a-bloc with hundreds of more such sites. Now, dont be an ostritch. Open your eyes and mind.

.......

I want answers from you not bongiaan......
Got some?

 

[syedali73]

@Psychic: Bhai, on one hand I admire your patience and perseverance whereas on the other I feel sorry for the valuable time you wasted in discussing logic with incorrigibles.

 

[Tipu7]

The war was initiated by Pakistan who since the defeat of India by China in 1962 had come to believe that Indian military would be unable or unwilling to defend against a quick military campaign in Kashmir

why Pakistan didn't attack Kashmir in 1962 when Chinese were raping Indians both on North Western and North eastern borders...........?

 

[ayesha.a]

Did you see ignored you when you quoted my post previously?

I know you did not respond, but how am I to know whether your lack of response is a deliberate act of ignoring, or a lack of having a response at all?

If it was the former, you had the choice to continue doing so. But you didn't, did you? You chose to respond, albeit with the rather rhetoric-filled but substance lacking post again. "You Indians think the sun revolves around you" is not exactly a substantial response.

 

[Tipu7]

@Psychic: Bhai, on one hand I admire your patience and perseverance whereas on the other I feel sorry for the valuable time you wasted in discussing logic with incorrigibles.

Sir I was feeling kind of boring. Thought I can use my time to check few things with Indian friends........ you mind taking part in discussion..........?

 

[Xeric]

Pakistan did attack India in 1971, presumably because they thought so. Siachen was also something that Pakistan could have chosen to widen if it wanted or was interested to take that risk. The point here is that the side attempting a change in the status quo does not make the determination of how limited the retaliation will be.

That's exactly what i want to point out!

When it comes to 1965 war, Pakistan becomes the attacker and you take the commencement of hostilities from Aug 1965 onwards (Op Gibraltar) and negate that the international border was crossed on 6 September by India.

but..

When it comes to 1971 War, Pakistan again becomes the aggressor when it attacked you on 3 December 1971 and you foolishly ignore the skirmishes / cross-border attacks by your forces well before that, and the conspiracy / activities by India as early as start of the year 1971.

Sir, there is no denying the fact that Pakistan indeed did Gibraltar and it did attack on 3 Dec 71, but it's the hypocrisy displayed by you guys when you pick-n-chose dates to your convenience that needs to be highlighted.

 

[Tipu7]

Now, dont be an ostritch. Open your eyes and mind

Throw some thing new ............ Some thing to justify ''DIGNIFIED and BRAVE victory of GREAT INDIA on EVIL PAKISTAN..........

 

[ayesha.a]

Lol at your weird childish logic. I just proved to you by examples from around the world that nations from around the world celebrate their victories and honor their brave every year. They don't wake up from a slumber 50 years later and say lets celebrate our defeat as victory. It has been 50 years no else cares to remember so lets fool everyone.

If it had been a victory you would have been celebrating it every year because you had just three years ago received a spanking from your northern neighbour. To use your lame crickiting analogy a poor batsman has lot to celebrate when he is finally of the mark. But you guys did not.

Now you can enjoy this victory of your arguments over mine like your victory in 65

Regards

Then why doesn't USA celebrate the quelling of the Whiskey rebellion, or the Mexico-American war of 1898? Why doesn't Britain celebrate every single battle or war it has won every year? The battles and wars of WW1 and WW2 were existential, hence celebrated frequently.

 

[nForce]

Define ''MUCH'' force ...........?? How ''MUCH'' force India was Hiding??

Don't ask stupid questions. You are here discussing about 1965 war and you don't have a clue about the chain of events ?
India did not attack East Pakistan because by that time, it was pretty clear, where the center of power lies. Read "Friends Not Masters" by Ayub Khan. If defence of the east lies in the west, then it is the west that is going to be attacked.

 

[Xeric]

I know you did not respond, but how am I to know whether your lack of response is a deliberate act of ignoring, or a lack of having a response at all?

If it was the former, you had the choice to continue doing so. But you didn't, did you? You chose to respond, albeit with the rather rhetoric-filled but substance lacking post again. "You Indians think the sun revolves around you" is not exactly a substantial response.

See, that's what i am talking about.
How easily you chose to ignore the sentences beyond the first line at your convenience! This is the same (lame) tactics you people apply to international matters too.

Thanks for substantiating my argument.