14.12.'71, PAF F-6s RTB After Shooting Down Indian MiG-21

[Windjammer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470606525911736320

 

[Windjammer]

Logged in daily PAF combat kills of IAF aircraft in December 1971.

 

[Imran Khan]

50 saal se hum mig-21 hi mar rahy hain bus . indians will never let us having good hunt

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

No MiG-21 was shot down by F-6.
Even PAF Commdore Kaiser Tufail accepts that

 

[Windjammer]

No MiG-21 was shot down by F-6.
Even PAF Commdore Kaiser Tufail accepts that

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Could you kindly post the table of first week of IAF losses from 3-December until 10-December.
So the IAF version is the gospel truth. Let's just go by the above table which documents the second week of the war, I.E from 10.12 .....until 17.12 inclusive. It details 15 IAF losses including several in accidents and admits to only Three IAF aircraft lost in aerial combat....all to the F-86s...... astonishingly it reports as only one IAF pilot being taken as POW (17-December F/L Tejwant Singh a MiG-21 pilot shot down by an F-86).
Apart from a a few who escaped, majority of the crew, 12 in all having been shown as killed in action.
But main point is that from this list IAF admits to just One pilot taken as POW.
Meanwhile, I have posed this info and question here before and have also forwarded to sources in Delhi and elsewhere.....surprise...surprise....no reply or explanation given. Basically, IAF version and admittance of losses is nothing but pure BS.

''Recently, after fifty years, since the 1965 war, the Indian Air force, in it's official history book, finally admitted losing some 35 aircraft in the two initial ground strikes by the Pakistan Air force on the opening days of the war, thus it leaves little to the imagination the overall IAF losses during the entire war. However, six years later, in the 1971 war, the IAF claims that it lost only 40 aircraft in the entire Western theatre including those shot down over India. What an absolute farce. Picture below represents a group of IAF Sikh pilots in one Pakistani POW camp alone.Considering Sikhs are only a minority, it's not difficult to conclude how many majority Hindu pilots must have been shot down or for that matter pilots from other minorities such as Muslims and Christians makes the admitted Indians losses figure of overall 40 aircraft ludicrous specially since Indian Ministry of Defence also admits that most of the air battles took place over India. Thus the Pakistani claims of destroying over 80 Indian aircraft in Western theatre makes it a real possibility, these don't include any ground losses during PAF's prolonged night attacks on all major IAF bases throughout the war. Let's just hope, we don't need to wait another lifetime before the IAF admits to it's real losses.''

Pakistan, Lyalpur camp, 12 April 1972, visit to Indian prisoners of war (POWs).
"Sikh pilots, now POWs, passed their time flying kites. Camp authorities forbade this activity. An "homme de confiance", also a POW, explains the visit of Red Cross delegates, emphasizing that he hopes the ICRC can negotiate on their behalf the return of the kites." (ICRC)

 

[Windjammer]

And just when one thought it couldn't get any worse, the table of Indian losses in the second whole week of the war includes those........shot down in the Eastern sector.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Could you kindly post the table of first week of IAF losses from 3-December until 10-December.
So the IAF version is the gospel truth

First of all that table is not IAF version but from PAF Commodore Kaiser Tufails book published in 2018, so it is Pakistani version.

As for Sikh POW in 1965 war there was only one Sikh pilot who was PAF pow (Sikand).

 

[Windjammer]

First of all that table is not IAF version but from PAF Commodore Kaiser Tufails book published in 2018, so it is Pakistani version.

As for Sikh POW in 1965 war there was only one Sikh pilot who was PAF pow (Sikand).

And suddenly you are dancing to the so called Pakistani version.
LOL, KT wasn't exactly part of the 1971 war neither was he operating on both sides of the border, he wouldn't know which IAF pilots were killed or escaped or otherwise and used info released by the IAF.... I mean how pathetic to admit only three air combat losses on both fronts and all to the F-86.
And you think that International Red Cross who visited the IAF POW camp can't tell the difference.
BTW we are discussing 1971 war not 1965.

 

[Tornado23]

No MiG-21 was shot down by F-6.
Even PAF Commdore Kaiser Tufail accepts that

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Re read what he wrote. He neither confirmed nor denied the kill

 

[Aesterix]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470606525911736320

Look at his calm and confident demeanour.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

And suddenly you are dancing to the so called Pakistani version.
LOL, KT wasn't exactly part of the 1971 war neither was he operating on both sides of the border, he wouldn't know which IAF pilots were killed or escaped or otherwise and used info released by the IAF.... I mean how pathetic to admit only three air combat losses on both fronts and all to the F-86.
And you think that International Red Cross who visited the IAF POW camp can't tell the difference.
BTW we are discussing 1971 war not 1965.

He was an historian and PAF insider and had access to PAF war records.
As for Sikh pilot pows in 1971 war, there were only two (Grewal and Tejwant).

Re read what he wrote. He neither confirmed nor denied the kill

He was plainly saying PAF has no evidence of this claim of a MiG-21 kill.

He did not include it in the attached table in his 2018 book too.

Even his old blog excludes it:

IAF Losses - 1971 Indo-Pak War

pafcombat.tripod.com

 

[Windjammer]

He was an historian and PAF insider and had access to PAF war records.
As for Sikh pilot pows in 1971 war, there were only two (Grewal and Tejwant).

Now tell me, how would PAF know that a Canberra crashed deep inside India and its aircrew were all killed or the pilot of HF-24 escaped when his aircraft got straffed.
And if only 2 were IAF Sikh POWs, the two dozen others must be just there to participate in the kite flying fun.
The wreckage of the IAF MiG-21 displayed by Indians s a PAF trophy most probably is the one being mentioned in OP.

 

[alikazmi007]

 

[Tornado23]

He was an historian and PAF insider and had access to PAF war records.
As for Sikh pilot pows in 1971 war, there were only two (Grewal and Tejwant).

He was plainly saying PAF has no evidence of this claim of a MiG-21 kill.

He did not include it in the attached table in his 2018 book too.

Even his old blog excludes it:

IAF Losses - 1971 Indo-Pak War

pafcombat.tripod.com

Please re read what he wrote again. He neither confirmed or denied the kill.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Please re read what he wrote again. He neither confirmed or denied the kill.

Please re read again
He said there is no evidence of PAF claim of a kill. Hence it remains moot and which is why he did not include it in both his old and new list.

Now tell me, how would PAF know that a Canberra crashed deep inside India and its aircrew were all killed or the pilot of HF-24 escaped when his aircraft got straffed.
And if only 2 were IAF Sikh POWs, the two dozen others must be just there to participate in the kite flying fun.

Because those events including the Canberra accident due to CFIT were published by Indian authors who were then duly cited by Pakistani authors.