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Btw, I was going over his wiki - he seems to be a genuinely good guy. You may not know this but I was particularly intrigued by the following paragraph:- “ Unlike the present day Islamists, Prophet Muhammad, when he established the first Islamic state in Medina – actually a Jewish-Muslim...

I appreciate you recognizing your own biases. I’ll certainly look into the gentleman you mentioned above. As always, it’s a pleasure interacting with you. I have linked the letter from the British archives in my original post. YLH can gaslight all he wants. Anyone can go and view the letter...

Post #76 has no strong arguments. Mere claims that we supposedly agree on that we don’t. Most of the claims are addressed from the beginning of this thread already. No substance to your assertion of their strength. But alas, I continue to pollute my own thread with this back and forth, lol. I...

Lol, I guess ultimately the thread is for public audience of people to judge. In this case, they can also judge what is happening here between us. They will read your points above and make their own minds. Ofc, you can make any wild claims about “disproving whatever this or that”. But alas...

Lol, we concur on none of these points actually. In fact, we are most decidedly disagreed on them. But alas, I see now it is not worth discussing this further with you. This back and forth is a polluting this thread and frankly has not generated any useful feedback either. I’ll await other...

I guess we simply disagree on what can be used as primary source material. Curiously, the earliest reference I have used is Professor Leonard Binder’s (1961). And he is a contemporary of the event. As far finding this in the constituent assembly records, we most certainly will not because the...

In all honesty, I value your input more than Sarmad’s. Sarmad has committed himself to a point of view in this regard and is more attached to it, as am I. Regarding your second point, why is Jinnahs letter to Hassan Al Banna not to be taken as a primary/original source to prove that claim...

I would love for you to critique what I have presented in this thread particularly in the first five posts. Would love your feedback. Even though, Sarmad, and I are arguing, I actually do value his opinions too. It certainly qualifies as a primary source to prove the existence of the said...

You are missing the point here. Whether I or you believe Hamidullah or Muneer more is irrelevant. Hamidullah is relevant to the discussion as a first hand witness. Muneer alleging something of Usmani is less reliable because:- 1) We have Usmani’s very own family of scholars denying...

The point is, and it is self apparent, that the Pakistani archives are a mess. Even Jinnah’s letter to Hassan Al Banna I reference is stored in the British archives. So in that poor state, it is absolutely valid to use other primary sources to figure out what was going on.

“After eight months upon the request of Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (RA) I arrived in Pakistan and foremost was the need to prepare a skeleton of an Islamic constitution and for this purpose, I, Shaykh Sulaiman Nadwi (RA) and Dr Hameedullah (RA), Maulana Manzir Ahsan Gilani (RA) were invited...

Even if you insist that the committee/body set up by Usmani was in his own initiative, the problems are multi fold. How does someone just setup a body by himself on these issues? How is he inviting other people to come and sit on it by himself as a personal project? Why are international...

It is vague enough to have both possible readings. I went and read Zafar Ahmad Ansari directly too. Looks like that is also vague although it calls it a committee in one place and a majlis in another. Can’t find the article source from Hamidullah’s post Morten biography that explicitly says...

As we have discussed previously, Usmani never declared Shias as kafir that we know of. The allegations come out of the clownish court of Justice Muneer, who even Leonard Binder in his book, simply says is not unbiased. Not even worth responding to. If you claim that Usmani declared all Shias...

Just have to correct you here, based on the first hand testimony I already provided above, namely Muhammad Shafi, he was invited in 1948 while Jinnah was alive. He never arrived to Pakistan in 1948. He may have had some input through letters in 1948 apparently according to tertiary sources too.

So the post-Morten biography I linked for Hamidullah in the first few posts explicitly says that he was invited to work for the govt of Pakistan in 1948. The source apparently is Zafar Ahmad Ansari’s son zafar Ishaq Ansari in a post-Morten biographical piece written in a magazine in 2003 that I...

Hey my guys, let’s open up a seperate thread from the master thread to discuss Iqbal speeches or views and Jinnahs speeches or views. Let’s open up a seperate thread to pull at this point connected to the main thread.

Let’s not get into that here on this thread. We should discuss this in another thread attached to the master thread. Maybe something like what did Jinnah say in his speeches.

It depends on what you mean by “traditional” and “orthodox”. My expanded thesis which I want to draw out over these threads is that Jinnah did know who he was calling to consult on the constitution. I mean take a close look at Hamidullah or Nadvi Sahab? Do they fall under the pit of traditional...

Yes that’s my general thesis too.