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I challenge YOU and Mr. MuradK to explain why you think I am this Mohd. Shamsul haq......please give a reasoned explanation.... and I hope Patriot took up my suggestion and invited him and I hope he joins...that will quiten these thoughts..Good God...Rozaaa lug raha hai kya?????

WHAT IS THIS?????? Why would I pretend to be someone else???? What is going on? all I did was point out websites and stories that are readily available to everyone and saw a discrepancy that no one has been able to resolve and I am greeted with suspicion.....REALLY - is this the height of...

plus... Patriot just emailed him.... why would I ask somebody to email me?????? Confused......

???????????:disagree: What makes you say that???????

:cheers: .....better yet INVITE HIM TO JOIN this forum!!!!!! ...please keep us posted on your progress to get another real live hero on this forum....

If you think it is appropriate - ask him about the Shams vs Schames issue - and what does he think of the SJ and why did Schames not get any medal for his shoot down... I wonder if he is in touch with Gul and Shamshad with whom he flew on those 3 shootdowns.... Someone on this forum also...

Actually this gentleman's profile is public so it would be okay to post it here as I did in one of my previous posts. Please click on this link: Shams Chohaan - Google Profile and also this: Home which conincidentally uses the PAF roundel as a header on the website! By the way...

Thank you - therefore the matter can be put rest: - Shamsul haq - 3 kills - Schamesul haq - 1 kill Both were awarded Sitara-e-Jurat. The first one was "rich kid" and left the Air force in 1974 and is in Pindi. The other is retired in Karachi. I hope I got it right, Mr. Muradk -...

Further confusion: The following gives ALL four to someone named "Flt. Lt. Muhammad Shams-ul-Haq "Schames" " - note the use of the name Schames as this pilot's nickname - looks suspiciously like the other Schames ul haq in the official record above: Pakistan Institute for Air Defence...

First of all :cheers: for indulging me once again. Secondly, maafi chahtaa hoo - I did not intend to confuse you. Here is where I am confused: In your first post above it seems to me that the Shams who got three kills was a Flt. Lt. Shams ul haq nicknamed "Skamish", then in your second...

Ilan Ramon, the dad, was one of the pilots who participated in the Iraq Osirak nuclear plant attack......... http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/7/newsid_3014000/3014623.stm

Perhaps on a different note: what gallantry awards were awarded to pilots in 1971 and to whom? If there is another thread that contains this data, please let me know. I know "gongs" sometimes do not matter, but I was just curious as to what was the "official" recognition of fighter pilot...

...take your quote to mean that Butani was shot down by AAG - not one of the Sabre shoot-downs?

WomEn ????:cheers: Do they know each other?????:smitten:

:cheers: Hopefully he was rewarded - awarded - appropriately? :toast_sign: Three "bad guys" in a couple of days is pretty good by anybody's shooting standard, eh? My interest as the reader can tell is the East Pakistan theater in 1971 for no other reason than it has not received the...

With respect - I was just suggesting an alternative as to why these pilots who had done so well in the air when their lives were on the line did not make it into "management". I accept your conclusion that it was mostly heart issues - so thank you for your reply.:cheers: I am still curious...

I am just curious - being new on this forum - where and what are the above doing these days??? Also in reference to Mr. Muradk's comment earlier in this thread about none of them making the higher echelons of PAF command....sad. Let me, just for discussion sake, suggest an alternative...

Thank you for your reply - unfortunately I could not find the link to your posting on 4th Dec 71. My overall interest is the action out of Dacca in 1971. I have spent some time on this forum and have not come across any detailed presentations on Dacca 1971. Can you direct me to any?