gutto786

Yar Xeeshan you did exactly what I suspected, i-e. ignorance and stuborness and blind hate show

For ur question, Hazrat Mehdi and Messiah is one person its not two personalities. Jesus of this time is actually messiah and mehdi. Your imaginative dajjal doesnt exists, dajjal means the forces of satan of this time and these are western powers.

Jesus was to arrive at the end of 14th century and now its almost end of 15th century. Atleast think about it. according to hadith there is going to a mujadid at the start of each century....Where is the mujadid of 14th century?? its infact messiah maud which has already come.

Again, if you dont understand arabic that doesnt mean you should ignore that. That was the logic u presented earlier, so this way are you going to ignore Quran and hadith too because these are in arabic too......so dont ignore the links I have provided and rather go and ask you maulvis about the interpretation of the writings I presented earlier....

Kupppissshhh brother!!

And we dont run away its always you people who run away and make sick excuses.......if we were to run away we would have run away from pakistan after such voilence against us in pakistan

Now chill!!

Yar ghutto you did what i suspected, i.e. ran away.
Chal chhor sab bato'n ko. Just tell me one thing... you believe massiah has/had arrived... where are Hazrat e Mehdi (A.S) and Dajjal then? Isn't Massih gonna be a companion/contemporary of these two? Whats your take on that?

Keep it up brother......I wont get into anymore discussion with u.....I know what kind are u and its not ur fault ......this hatred has been embedded in you and ur brain doesnt react anyother way then hatred for ahmadis........ ur no different then millions of unlucky muslims these days.......So keep up the good work!!

Its so strange and it says it all!! ur avoiding Hazrat hakim tirmazi writting because it clearly says: anybody who believe in lastness of prophet mohammed (PBUH) is a a ***** and fool......and if you would have a little fear of God and if you were a little curious about judgin right or wrong .....you would have cared to use the millions of online arabic - english translators.....

In the end, I wasnt doing all this to prove me right(coz I know I am blessed by God and Iam right, and you and ur generations will see that too inshAllah)........I was doing it for purpose that if one person can understand the truth its worth it!!

So anyways ........our discussion is over...........Now that uve proved me wrong and have completed ur Jihad......just for curiousity and to strengthen ur faith, If u ever feel like in ur life get the arabic script of Hazrat Hakim tirmazi translated and u'll probabaly get ur answer

Secondly, I am really amused by ur claim that kamalaat e nabuwat ka hasool doesnt mean someone getting prophethood.......If someone can get all the attributes,properties, miracles and kamalat -e- nabowat........I dont know why he cant call himself nabi ......just to satisfy ur understanding of islam I guess!! whatever God does have some logic in it.......I dont understand why would God allow anybody to get all the attributes and properties and kamalat-e-nabowwat but that person cant call him a prophet?? Just becoz some hundered years after prophet Mohammed(PBUH) muslims went stupidly wrong in their misconception about islam and in this effort they have even accepted the most stupidiest believes that Jesus was taken by God alive to heavens..........this is a ferry tail and it doesnt happen in real life!! its a pity how christian were able to strengthen this misconception in muslims!! anyways there is still a group of people guided right by Allah that will never give up on right version of islam inshAllah!!

And ur point that Jesus will come and not claim prophethood, and he will come down as a muslim.....still doesnt prove jesus was from Mohammed(PBUH) ummah .....becoz he was sent to the jews earlier and he was from Bani israel ummah.....he was born as an israilite.... and secondaly Allah says in quran that prophethood is a gift which once given to anybody is not taken back......ur disrespecting Jesus by saying that he will give up his prophethood(I know ur argument is that messiah in Mohammed PBUH ummah is higher then a prophethood.....but God said that he doesnt take back the gift of prophethood from anybody.....atleast God should have mentioned "except Issa" in quran then it will be justified.....right now it seems like God(Na aoozobillah) has lied which is impossible and blasphemy....so it is u guys u are disrespecting prophets and are committing blashphemy just for some an insance misconception of ur own).....

One last thing......all his life jesus preached christianity and now when he will come down suddenly he will start teaching islam.......wouldnt that infuriate christians and how does jesus plan to cool down christian on that.....becoz christian will call him traitor and a lier(na aoozobillah).....how will he preach islam to christian who are a majority currently.......will the christian believe him?? How will he face Moses afterwards....becoz he was supposed to preach moses religion and that was his duty and now suddenly he changes his stance......Ur imaginative jesus can only exist in fairy tales and can only bring about more war and blood shed in the world......he cant be a prophet of islam.....becoz islam is peace and he cant achieve his complicated task by peaching with peace......he has to force his views on the christian once he comes

But our logical and beautiful understanding of islam solves it all for u.....why do u people insist on something complicated??

Waqat tha waqat -e- messiah na kissi aur ka waqat
Mien na atta to koyee aur hee aya hota
by (Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed)(the promised messiah and a servant of Hazrat Muahmmed PBUH)

Whoa whoa whao!
@link narrated in arabic: whatever you are saying is not worth commenting for me because of what is coming up next... (i don't understand arabic, can't argue and believe you). Leave it

@according to Mujadid Alif Sani a prophet can come after Hazrat Muhammad (Salla Allaho Wasallam): no he never said that. "kamalaat e nabuwwat ka hasool" can't be translated to someone getting prophethood.

@this proves coming back of Jesus: how the hell does it prove that, while Muslims believe , as wrote Hazrat Mujadid: Jesus will follow Muhammad (Salla Allah O Wasallam)'s shariah (page 187, last line). Jesus will not come as a prophet but a follower of last Prophet (Salla Allah O Wasallam) Of Allah.

@coming back of Jesus is wrong, cuz he wasn't from prophet (salla allah o wasallam)'s ummah:
Agreed. But
Untill he was Jesus, he wasn't from muhammad (salla allah o wasallam)'s ummah. Upon his 2nd arrival, he will not claim prophethood, as did MGA qadyani, and he will come down as Muslim in Muhammad (Salla Allah O Wasallam)’S Ummah.


MGA qadyani, wrote in one of his books… (about revelations that he recieved)
“whoever says that ‘revelation’ has exterminated in religion, i declare such religion false.” (braheen ahmed.v.5.p.139.roohani khazain.v.21.p.206)

While you are so eager to disclose upon me the difference of khatam and khatim, care to elaborate if someone from Muslim community is also in denial of revelation coming to an end after Muhammad (Salla Allah O Wasallam). Revelation and prophthood are interconnected, so if someone, as you claim, has denied lastness of Prophet(Salla Allah o wasallam), he must have denied “revelations coming to an end” phenomena as well?

“we also refer to those ‘hadiths’ that confirm to the quran and do not contradict my revelation. While to other sayings of the holy prophet (salla allah o wasallam) (hadiths) we throw them in dust bin.” (roohani khazain: v: 19, p: 140)

Is he really a follower of Muhammad(Salla Allah O Wasallam), as you claim? No, the answer is a straight NO. Instead the british paighambar received heavy amounts just to hide one fact…. He is a KAZZAB.

First of all.....you are unfortunately totally wrong in saying that no muslim has ever objected against the lastness of Muhammed (PBUH).....
and the purpose of these links were to prove my argument.......as in the Khatamul Awliya Hazrat Hakim tirmizi narrates in arabic that: "Taking the meaning of khatam-e-nabooyat as the last prophet is not right and being the last prophet doesnt add any respect to holy prophet's(PBUH) prophethood(the point he made was that being the last in the lot doesnt any respect to the prophethood of Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH) but being the seal(authenticator) of prophets add a lot of respect to the prophethood of Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH)) and if anybody takes that meaning he is an illeterate and a fool"(that is what the arabic statement means.....ur a muslim and you dont even know simple arabic......and you claim Iam a non muslim yet Iam explaining the core of religion to you!!)


Yes and in the first paragraph of maktobat Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani......Mujadid Alif sani says that: After the prophethood of Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH), Onlysomebody from Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH) ummah can get prophethood in a sense that he claims to be a servant of Hazrat Muahmmed(PBUH) and only preaches what was given to Hazrat Muahmmed (PBUH)(thats what the urdu word "batariq-e-warasat" means)......
So according to Muajadid alif sani .......A prophet can come after Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH) and it can only come in Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH) ummah(please note that this proves the claim of coming back of Jesus christ wrong becoz he wasnt from hazrat Muhammed(PBUH) ummah!!) and if a prophet will come he will come from inside the muslim ummah and this doesnt break the khatam-e-nabooyat of Hazrat Muhammed(PBUH) becoz khatam with a zabar means seal of prophets(authenticity, stamp of prophets) it is different from khatim(which is mixed up by mullahs to fool muslims today)and khatim means last.......Khatam as noun mean seal and not last!!

So please clear urself up that no muslims has ever rejected the lastness of prophet Muahmmed(PBUH)......saints and mujadids like Hakim tirmazi and mujadid alif sani were firm believer of khatam means seal of prophet and they consider it stupid to take the meaning of lastness from the word khatam and its only becoz todays muslims dont understand the language arabic properly that they are fooled by the mullahs these days......

If you want i cant provide you with many other refrences.......Like there is a story naratted that Once hazrat Ali was walking pass the kids who were reciting Quran......and the kids recited the work "Khatam" as "Khatim" and Hazrat Ali, being very intelligent and smart to know that its a sensitive matter and can cause problems later on, stopped and told the kids to corret themselves and make sure they read "Khatam" and not "Khatim"

May Allah enable all to see the right path!! But you know its been over 100 years since the muslims have been denying the promised messiah and a prophet of God.......you guys will keep on denying becoz you dont think .....and you just follow what was told to you!! your views are blinded by an organized propaganda by the mullahs!!

But in the end ....every soul will be answerable for his/her own deeds on the day of judgement

1)Hazrat Hakim Al-tirmazi
khatamul awliya(page:341, specially last paragraph)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=955CLDO1

can't understand arabic


2)Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani
Maktobat Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani(page:188, specially first paragraph)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MSK3FFC9

care to elaborate your point in the 1st para of this reference.


PS: isn't it me who is supposed to ask for authenticity of your religion? elaborating by example: Muslims are practicing there religion since 1400 years, nobody ever objected on the Lastness of prophet Muhammad salla Allah o alaeh e wasallam. BUT then Qadyani out of nowhere self-proclaimed propechy (na-uzubillah). Isn't it you people who have to prove your holiness with (Muslims) people questioning you about it?

Before i go on to read these articles/books you posted as reference, let us be clear that behas braey behas will be counter productive.
Rule #1: Basic founding Beliefs are to be proved from the authentic books/references (only).

Gutto:

While I appreciate your posts defending Ahmadi's, the thread is not for theological debates, and whether the Ahmadi faith is wrong. The thread is primarily for pointing out why the laws against Ahmadis are discriminatory and wrong and should be overturned.

I liked your post pointing out that even Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was not given the right to declare someone Muslim or non-Muslim - that is the line of argument that we need to follow, to point out why such discrimination is against Islam itself, in whose name people practice this discrimination!

If we get into theological discussion on whether Ahmadis are theologically correct or not, the main issue gets hidden. Even Shia and Sunni scholars have not been able to agree on theological issues after all these years, so the 'mainstream Islam vs Ahmadi' debate will not be resolved quickly or on this forum, and it only distracts from the central issue and gives excuses to people in favor of discriminatory laws.

I have therefore deleted theological posts of yours. Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeeshan View Post
The way you take it as a shame on Pakistanis, in precisely the same manner we (Muslims) take it as a shame if someone enounces prophecy and still goes on to live. (followers of such a kafir are not included for such a death row)
Ohh somebody wants to talk logic........Allah subhana watalla mentions in Quran......that a false prophet will be caught from his she-rug!!

now my dear friend when Allah takes the responsiblity of dealing with the false prophet why do the "muslims" of pakistan have to take it to themselve to safe guard islam.....infact it shows thier distrust on God and his sayings



Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeeshan View Post
Don't term it as a black law, instead look how hard and directly do you people hit Islam and then ask to overturn any Law, we make, to curb such strike? And how could you forget that Pakistan is an Islamic republic, kaam ki nahi chalo NAAM KI TO REHNY DO.
Anything thats based on discrimination and hatred is infact a black law......Can you do me a favour!! ask any imam sahab a simple question.......what is a difference between "Khatim...with a zair on arabic tey" and "khatam....with a zabar on arabic tey" and then ask him which word was used to refrence Holy Prophet.....you will get the whole game in seconds

Khatim means Last
Khatam means Seal(stamp used for authenticity which infact validates the forthcoming of prophets after prophet muhammed(PBUH))

PLz do that for the sake for proving me wrong atleast!!

LMFAO... chu chu chu
dear o dear! and the same **** one more of you spew. I bet you are gonna run away from this debate. . .
BUT read my initial post before indulging into any of such debates, i asked you people to go into the SUPREME COURT TO PROVE YOURSELF TRUE. don't gather sympathies by false statements on such forums. Talk with proofs is what you people have always been running from.